Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hi All

I am unsure whether this question has been asked, or answered before.

Can vegetables from an AP system be classified or sold as organic? I am particularly interested in the classification rules in OZ.

Yep, has been asked. bit of discussion around the place on it.

key points i think were;

1) fish feed would need to be certified orgainic

2) organic certifiers tend to fear what they don't know, and they dont know AP so there is no real guidelines for certification so i think they are wary of it.

I think another key point was that people would still pay a premium price for something that was obviously "organic" with out having the ORGANIC certification number on it.

I believe there a re moves afoot to stop people using the word organic unless its certified organic? dunno.

Thanks Steve

I find this Organic thing very confusing. For example if you put your kitchen scraps in a worm farm. Feed the worms to your fish, the bacteria provide minerals from the fish waste to grow your plants, I suppose you could argue that because the original kitchen scraps were not all Organic it isn't Organic.
However I doubt that there is any place left on Earth that is not subject to pollution in some form so Organic growers still would have contaminents in their produce.

Suppose you could call them Apanic vegies but does not sound very good.

Someone termed the phrase "aquaponically grown"..... don't think anyone could argue with that....

But yep, agree with you the whole concept of "organic" is somewhat muddied and ill-defined. But still worthy of support and pursuit in terms of AP.

i guess the thing is that veges grown organically have had soil test ect done so they will be free of heavy metals and so forth.
however if you bought some contaminated veges that were then fed to the worms and then used those castings to grow in you would prob still have traces of that contamination.
on the other hand i can't see how they could refuse you the certification if you followed the same rules that dirt growers do. They can test water just as easily as soil. in some cases because alot of ap is housed it would be even easier to protect from contamination

Rupert

You possibly have a more benign view of the educational standards of the populace than I do. Label vegies as aquaponically grown and most will think of hydro (not that there is anything wrong with hydro).

Beeso

Didn't know they had to have the soil tested for heavy metals. Thought it was just a pesticide, chemical fertilizer and GM thing. I wasn't talking about growing stuff in the worm casts only feeding the worms to fish and the resultant mineral uptake by AP plants. Its a lot further down the chain.


Reason I was asking is that lots of green groups rate things (ie vegies) as being good because they are Organic. This unfortunately results in other methods of cultivation being regarded as perhaps 'not so good'.

I was concerned about their policy re chickens. I am told that chickens in a bettery hen setup cannot be certified organic as they are caged. The same goes for Rabbits, which in Aust must be caged by law. So no rabbit farm can be cert. Organic.

How do they feel about aquaculture? Is this 'caged' is this intensive farming that they consider non-organic? Anyhow how has being cruel to animals got anything to do with how organic they are?

But I'm sure I've made this point elsewhere anyhow. Just my 2c again.

good point about the density for organic cert
i'll ask some guys i know who might be able to shed some light id never thought of that!

as KP points out, the biggest problem you will have with getting ap grown produce certified, is the fact the fish are grown in tanks.

getting certification in australia involves an ethical component. it is not simply about being chemical free. i think the idea is right, however its is a very grey area. after all, ethics will differ amongst everyone. at the end of the day it might come down to whether or not the certifiers on that particular day find the method ethical. personally some of the stocking densities in the aquacultural industry i find unethical.

so if stocking densities are kept low then the chances are you could get certification so long as all inputs are organic. you would probably have to produce most of your own feed and get that certified first though. to date there is no organic feed available on the market. this is being looked into now though.

city farm in perth are looking for certification and will probably be a good referral point, when the time comes. their garden is already certified organic. if they don't get at least we will have an idea what if anything can be done to get certification.

its a huge pain in the arse to get certified, but once you are it would be a huge asset. especially in the long term future. after all not to many go to all the bother.

thanks BF, the densities I hadn't considered as such. Nor did I know that there was a blanket 'ethical' requirement. I had thought fish-tanks = cages = end of story (but what are paddocks if not cages) but perhaps if the densities were low they would allow it... hmmmmm
Also do you know the legal mumbo jumbo regarding using the term 'organic'? has it been 'trademarked' or equiv? If I want can I call my produce 'Organic but uncertified'? Can I get sued? or at least ordered not to?

Thanks for the Info everyone.

The ethical component for fish is strange, stressed I can understand (they tend to die or get very sick). Battery animals are usually not terribly healthy; free range hens are kept in an enclosure (not described as caged)

Hope City Farm sorts it out with the 'authorities'.

Like many things, "organic" means different things to different people....

And has different organisations.... all claiming to be able to issue "certifications" ..... sound familiar

There's the Biological Farmers of Australia

http://www.bfa.com.au/

http://www.bfa.com.au/index.asp?Sec_ID=266


The Australian Certified Organic

http://www.australianorganic.com.au/

http://www.australianorganic.com.au/index.asp?Sec_ID=11


And the Organic Growers of Australia

http://www.organicgrowers.org.au/

http://www.organicgrowers.org.au/about.php

There has been some attempt lately to merge certification streams and the OGA Small Producers Program might be an avenue to persue.

My understanding is that it is "illegal" to claim "organic" certification and/or to label produce as "organic" without certification.

thanks Rupe!

but could we not just lable our good as chemical Free ?

seed savers get seeds through a lady who does just that. as far as i'm concerned she practices organic practices but simply can't afford to get certified. legally it could be a gray area especially if some chemicals ended up in some produce and someone had a bad reaction to it. then again it would be near impossible to prove it was the produce, given that most food off the supermarket shelf contain many chemicals.

then there may be people who might claim their produce is chem free but actually use chemicals in the process. if there is no regulation then someone is bound to do it. i may sound pessimistic but there are some nasty companies out there who will claim any thing for $. certification has its good and bad points.