Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Will try and explain my confusion KP....

Here ...

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum ... 2672#92672

... you say ...



Here ...

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum ... 2719#92719

you say ....



Here ...

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum ... 3488#93488

.... you say ...



Now that you've pointed out that ALL growbeds (something I probably missed earlier) have float valves, the green lines in your diagram make more sense and understand the flow to the header tanks and the subsequent flow to the second row of growbeds, also float valve controlled.

I'm still a little confused though why you had to use a ball valve/limiter on the first growbed if it's controlled by the float valve anyway and eventually....



.... throws me off again..... why do you need timed solenoids if the pump is sump float activated, the growbeds are float valve activated and the headers act as capacitors?

Yup, at the time, i wasn't running... my system is not yet up. there is only GB, that I'm plumbing today (more to come) Simmilarly, the sump switch is not yet installed. (but will be)


Yup water into pond and tanks, not pump and not GB


Hmmm misunderstanding: there is not going to be a limiter/ball valve on the first GB. never was going to be...



because I want continuous water flow to tanks and pond for aeration, however I don't want my plants to get wet feet, so the GBs cycle, the pond and tanks do not.

Is this a bad Idea? is that why it has been hard to understand? I do thank you for questioning me so persistently, it has made me evaluate what I am doing, and firmed up a picture in my head. (Also fixed at least 1 potential problem)

Ah... OK....



The pond is only filling (continuously) by gravity from the fish tanks and then returning by gravity to the sump .... Right??

I couldn't figure how with one pump you were pumping to the pond and fish tanks but Not to the growbeds???



Fair enough..... that being so, and assuming pump is controlled by sump float.... the pump will provide water to the growbeds (simultaneously or sequentially) until they are full.... the float valves will then close the flow to the growbeds and any remaining time (timed) the pump is on will flow into the header tanks.

In the mean time the growbeds will have commence draining via siphons... dropping the float valves and allowing the GB's to fill next time the pump cycle begins and/or from the headers???

So.... what sort of siphons will you use? or are you just going to allow a slow gravity drain?

If you siphon at a reasonable rate the growbeds will darin before the next pump fill cycle.... allowing a reasonable aeration time in the GB;s but won't they effectivelt then drain the header tanks???

In which case why bother with the header tanks, why not just pump on a timed basis?

Alternatively if you keep the timer/pump cycle short enough to ensure the header tanks maintain some level, will you be able to ensure the growbeds have drained completely for at least x amount of time?

Lastly, why have the timed solenoids and actuated gatevalves (good luck by the way in sourcing them without paying hundreds of dollars each) at all if you have a timed pump cycle, float valve controlled growbeds and a backflow header tank system?

First The one major premise of this system I will NOT change, is that water flow into the pond must be continuous for aeration and aesthetics (it's my water feature)

Right

The pump is but wont be timed. I want to base it on the sump volume using float (but essentially yes)
the GBs are allowed to fill based on their floats yes, and based on a timed valve from the header tanks.
Therefore there are three processes here.
1. Sump float that keeps the headers full.
2. Timed valve that fills growbeds.
3. Slow drain to fish tanks and pond.

Slow gravity drain wont work with cascading GB, as the flow into GB2 will be the same as the flow out of GB1, or I will need ever slower drains on the GBs. Slow drain is out of the question if I cascade.

Yes, see above with timed valve

I need a continuous flow of water to my pond, see above. But otherwise, yes I agree with you. I have a lot of water, so I want to move as much as I can. I also have water spread out, and need to mix it, even if it doesn't get filtered in that cycle.

The timed valves are to stop the GB plants getting wet feet because as you pointed out, they will continue to drain from the header tanks. (these valves are not in my diagrams, nor is the cascading... they are newer ideas.

Earlier in my post you will find this image and info

I can source these second hand and refurbish them. They come from old cooling tower equipment which is most often gravity fed at some point. Biocide dosers etc. (yes I cleaned them )

Ahh.... information leads to enlightenment...... saw the picture in the thread, just could see where/how you were going to apply the valves.

Humm... interesting, lot of varibles to synchronise..... keep us informed.

I am glad enlightenment has found you ROZ.
Yeah had a visit from Steve today. he pointed out that the float valves are only necessary on the first of the cascaded GBs, not on the subsequent ones. at least not if the siphon is quick enough.
So the floats are only really there for emergencies. To ensure waterloss does not occur on a blockage.

hey, kuda, just had a horrible thought. have you actually tested the ball valve?

i know that atleast SOME of them operate the same way as the solenoids in that they require a minimum pressure to seal.....................

hmmm by the look of them, they're a standard seat type tap, the pressure of hte water underneath the ball shuts the seat of the tap.

But no I haven't tested them - yet I would assume they're low pressure because of the application. Most farmers plumb their troughs from tanks up the hill, without a pump.

good point.

We've got some cross thread pollination happening here, but have you decided to use the timed valves / actuated gate valves / timed solenoids (whatever we're calling them now) to stop the issue you pointed out in the cascading bed thread (wet feet of plants due to something going wrong pumping the water in?).

pretty sure that ball float valves are a mechanical seal not a hydraulic one so water pressure in the rine shouldnt be an issue, however ..

once the syphon kicks in to drain the bed the valve will open as the water level drops lettin in more water making your draincycle lmuch onger

just a thought KP but couldn't you just use a seperate header tank(s) to supply the cascading? growbed(s) and another header or two to supply flow for the pond both being fed by the one pump in the sump?

the header for the growbeds could be fed at whatever rate you determine by valve the rest of the pump flow would be filling the other header(s) for pond flow. Simple autosyphon the GB header to flood several growbeds at once those beds could simply slow drain back into the water flow wherever you choose the pond or sump or fish tank etc.

me I tend to under engineer I like simplicity

This is an interesting idea Dan, but not simple - it still appeals to me. Physical room for more headers will be difficult, but it may be possible... I shall have to see. This will require more thought than I have to spare at 3:00am but I like where you're going

yes I will use 1 timed valve per cascade. this is to stop continuous flow through the cascade. This will not save me if there's a siphon malfunction. or if the volume of water is too small for a particular bed. I'm not sure what to do here.

Well people, the gravel has arrived
[web]http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=336[/web]
and the cleaning begun[web]http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=337[/web]
hmmm this is hard work.
So diligently I searched on the forum, yet found no description of how to wash gravel efficiently. So I thought I'd put up what I came up with.
First: Fill a barrow with water and place it next to your GB [web]http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=338[/web]
Get a bucket (or other transport medium) full of gravel and dump it in your barrow.
[web]http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=339[/web]
now you need to wash it. get a gravel rake from the garden shed and rake away until all the gravel is wet.[web]http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=340[/web]
then simple rake it into your GB, leaving all the nasty fines behind.[web]http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=341[/web]
And you're left with said nasty fines all through your barrow. This is a pic of how hard it is. To make that hole took about 8 hits of the shovel!!
[web]http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=342[/web]
Even with the barrow almost vertical the fines are set like cement in the bottom. Imagine if you let this stuff get into your GBs your flow would go to nothing![web]http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=343[/web]
I had to add a screen as a further mod to my GB (mentioned earlier in this thread and also in SNAG's new system thread) to keep the gravel from interfering with the float valve.[web]http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=344[/web]
and finally we're done... I just hope I don't have to move it![web]http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=345[/web]
And now I check my messages and see that my boss says I'm to be in Sydney on monday for 2 weeks! Whatever will come of my AP project in all that time... I still have to plumb my GB...