Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Groan... it's over six years old and has done the rounds several times...

And who cares...... if this affects peoples votes or the election outcome then I can only assume that the notion that we have lowered the base IQ of this country below 80 points is actually true....

The fact that it's even been raised is in itself a really sad reflection on what Australia has become.... and the fact that it has been done deliberately in an attempt to personally deride, denegrate or to suppose that someones character is in someway questionable is just absudity beyond imagination....

Next thing you'll all be amazed to learn that even John Howard farts....

Oh ... and did you see the one tonite on "Rove" that showed dipstick Abbott licking his lips and drooling salaciously over "Bonsai".... yeah sure...

I want to see the photo where John Howard is allegedly looking down some chicks top

i personally like the one where costellos head is positioned above howards lap

I want Rupe for PM !!!!!!!!!!

Far out - then the interesting footage would really start coming out

Please share this campaign with friends and family now to call on the Prime Minister to rethink his strategy in Iraq.

Just forward the message from former PM Malcolm Fraser below.

www.getup.org.au/campaign/OurOwnPlanForIraq

Many thanks,
The GetUp team

----

Dear GetUp Members,

The situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate with more loss of lives, with even more hardship to Iraqi civilians.

The serious divisions within Iraq, unleashed by the war itself, have not been reduced. The Iraqi government has made no significant steps towards reconciliation and accommodation between the warring parties.

This is a situation that cannot be controlled by military force. The troop surge, such as it was, failed. There were over half a million Americans in Vietnam. They failed. With only a fraction of that number in Iraq it should be no surprise that continued reliance on military means is not succeeding.

More and more Americans are coming to accept that withdrawal must take place. Senior and highly respected Republican Senators are deserting President Bush on this issue. The original objectives are almost entirely forgotten. There is no talk of Iraq establishing a benign, American style democracy that will spread to the rest of the Middle East.

Our withdrawal must be carefully planned, as a precipitous withdrawal in a week or a month would add to the chaos. And as the Baker-Hamilton Committee reported to Congress, all regional players, including Iran and Syria, must be drawn into discussions before we leave. Diplomacy now offers the only chance of a withdrawal accompanied by relative calm and peace.

One of the things we should say to the Americans, quite simply, is that if the United States is not prepared to involve itself in high level diplomacy concerning Iraq and other Middle East questions, our forces will be withdrawn before Christmas.

I encourage you to support GetUp's campaign for a change in policy. Add your voice below to the thousands who have spoken already. If enough speak, the Government has to listen.

www.getup.org.au/campaign/OurOwnPlanForIraq

Malcolm Fraser AC CH
Former Prime Minister of Australia

Oh and speaking of election promises, with 50 billion dollars on the table why couldn't some of the reforms have been done without an election in the wind.
Just goes to show how gullable the electorate is!

We get the government we deserve I suppose C1....

If we're morons we get a moronic government and get treated as morons.

Said it before... now is the time to demand a higher standard of government... that implies that WE must accept a greater responsibility and participation in the democratic process....

Otherwise they'll just whittle it away piece by piece until we're no more than barcoded morons

how to institute change is the question.
But first the people have to want change and if the majority are happy then so be it!

[quote="RupertofOZ"]My bugbear.... Industrial Relations....


Workplace Relations Minister Joe Hockey has today confirmed the Howard Government's intention to go further on industrial relations and get rid of trade unions altogether if re-elected.

Speaking on ABC radio this morning, Mr Hockey said: "The days of unions are essentially over."

[/quote]

To be fair, that in no way states or implies that they are going to some how "get rid trade unions". Such a move would be illegal given australia's law protecting our rights of association etc.
What he is alluding to is people have no need for a union to negotiate their pay and conditions anymore, and that the days of forced unionism are over. if you still want a union to negotiate on your behave there's nothing preventing that.
Personally, i'm on an AWA right now and i've never been paid more or had more benefits, so the scare mongering that i'll some how be worse off just rings hollow to me.
I also come from a union town (mackay, coal union) and i can tell you from first hand experience what it's like to deal with trade unionists. My father wrote a letter to the paper stating perhaps striking over things are trivial as the selection of food on offer isn't warrantied. We got threatening phone calls from various people claiming to represent the union.
I don't want people like that representing my choices in the work place.

The other thing about IR laws that rings hollow are these ads about people getting their pays cut. I'm sure you can find some select examples of this happening. but on the whole, we have never been better off and i think deep down everyone knows it.

I doubt the government will change this election, since historically governments only change during a down turn. perhaps if they can't keep interest rates under control we will see it next election.

Also just something to consider on the topic of Iraq.

100% agreed we must withdraw at some point.

but is it something to even consider in the short term? i think not given how unstable it is there.
While i'm sure it's a very popular policy for labor to claim it'll withdraw right away, you have to question if they really will. There's no way we could withdraw and remain on such good terms with the USA who is our strongest allie. Not only that, withdrawing form Iraq before it's stable will mean it'll just fall into the hands of the warlord with the most guns putting everything back to square one.
I suspect, it just a case of "say the oppersite to the government" strategy.

whos got the most guns pointed where now?

Unions- I am an employer that was an employee.
I have seen the dangers on a worksite that is not represented by the unions and refused to do work on them. One example-
The next day a crane fell over and killed one worker ( a contractor) and severly maimed another!
I had choices most worker don't!!
You are working under the benefit of the work that unions have done over the last 20 years timmy.
You should be thankful they went out on a limb for you so that you could be soo comfortable now!!!

[quote="creative1"]whos got the most guns pointed where now?

Unions- I am an employer that was an employee.
I have seen the dangers on a worksite that is not represented by the unions and refused to do work on them. One example-
The next day a crane fell over and killed one worker ( a contractor) and severly maimed another!
I had choices most worker don't!!
You are working under the benefit of the work that unions have done over the last 20 years timmy.
You should be thankful they went out on a limb for you so that you could be soo comfortable now!!![/quote]

So what because unions did some good before i was even born i somehow owe them? I work on a work site that isn't unionised right now and it's perfectly safe.
sorry but this logic just doesn't hold. for many reasons.
1. only industries with strong bargining power have unions strong enough to actually do anything to begin with. area's like wharf workers and coal are two examples. those unions definately have not done a thing for anyone but there own industries.
2. there are a multitude of acts such as the work place health and saftey act which protect our saftey at work, not the unions

bottom line is unions look after unions and that's it. when I was in the IT industry and jobs started getting out sourced to india, i didn't see any of these stronger unions standing up for me and my job.

So the last wars where our diggers died for your freedom don't concerne you?
and perhaps the army navy and SAS should be disbanded?
one day you will get it!!
Right now your a pup and like most pups you have a long way to go!

No matter how many kiwis come over in an effort to improve the IQ of both countries the war is being lost