Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Well, I put my breeders together, and although they have all played nice before, it did not go well this time. Both females got battered and I had to separate everyone. I've dosed the aquariums to 7-8ppt salt to help the gals heal. I think they'll be OK, but they need to spend some time recuperating. One of the females even had a mouthful of eggs, but I think the continued attentions of the male caused her to spit or swallow. Perhaps he was just over-eager, having been separated from mature company for many months.

At any rate, The male and one female are still in one aquarium, on either side of a divider. I believe these fish are fully capable of breeding through the divider, although fertility of the eggs will not be as high. I think I'll try things that way for a while, and see if we can get another mouthful of eggs. If that works, I'll move the male over to the other aquarium, again, on the other side of the divider from the female.

If I remember correctly. The breeding tank I 50gal tank with like plexy-glass as the separator?

Way not make the divider out of a mesh screen, which the fish can’t break, so the sperm will flow freely back and forth.

OR

I could be totally be wrong, because I need to go back and look.

`df

Janet, I just read back on some of your post. And you noted the Toms where putting off lots foliage, but a lack of flowers.

I am taking a Plant Science class at my College. And we just covered the reason why that is happening. It is the Nutrients that are in your AP system.

N-Nitrogen-all Green Growth.
P-Phosphorus- Root, Flower, Fruit Growth.
K-Potassium- Overall Health.

The basic nutrients.

Ok, Nitrogen and Phosphorus will lock each other up in compounds if there is to much of each, there are none available for the plant to take up.

In an AP system, Phosphorus is not available, so Nitrogen is free to do its work, Green Growth.

If there is an Excess of Nitrogen the Plants will resist flowering because there is little to no Phosphorus to build any Flowers off of. So the Tom plant will keep growing new leaves know matter what the lighting cycle.

Now if you supplement Phosphorus to make it Flowers, the Nitrogen will attach its self to the Phosphorus.

But you have Red Worms in your bed, providing castings, but the nutrients in the worm castings can only be made up of nutrients that where provided to the worms in there food, right?

Here is an idea I have been toying with in my head.

Say you have an AP system with worms, and toms as the plants. During the veggie cycle, only feed the worms leafy greens (high in Nitrogen, good for begging growth).

When you switch to Flowering, feed the worms only Fruits, like bananas peals, apples, extra. Because they are high in Phosphorus and Potassium.

What I hopefully want to do is to supplement the Phosphorus so much that there will be a lot left over for the plants to take after it attaches to Nitrogen.

Any HELP with this will be great.

Thank you
`df

Hi Janet!

I haven't been around for awhile, so I thought I would check on you and your system first.

I think DF is right, I just couldn't remember it from the Ag class I took in college almost thirty years ago! (Damn, I'm getting old!) Big problem you might have in getting Phosphorus in its basic chemical form is Homeland Security. Phosphorus is one of the chemicals on the HSA watch list for terrorist bomb makers (it really helps make things go BOOM!) DF's suggestion on trying to make it organically with your worms and thier food might be feasible, but I am afraid it might take awhile for the process to provide any visible results. I know you would see rapid results if you could get your hands on a couple of ounces of Phosphorus and use it on your flowering/fruiting vegetable plants.

Too bad Papa tilapia is in to BDSM! I remember you said you had been using a light grid out of a light fixture to segregate the fish. Hopefully the openings will allow "conjugal" visits!

If you need to supplement your light, look for a simple four foot flourescent light fixture (shop type) at one of the box/home improvement stores. Then install two grow light tubes into it, along with two regular light tubes. The grow light tubes will probably cost more than the fixture, but it should give you the extra light and the wave lengths necessary for healthy growth.

Kevin

Hi DF and Kevin,
I use a plastic grid with half-inch holes for the divider in the tank. It's made to put over fluorescent light fixtures, and easily allows visibility, water, and milt to flow between the sides of the tank. I have high hopes--the females were partying through the divider, and would each end up with a mouthful of unfertile eggs. So the gals are used to restricted access, and I figure the male will play his part as soon as his first gal is feeling a little better. Somehow I got a nitrite spike in the main breeder tank, so I had to do a quick water change and re-salting this morning. (No food for you, my pretties!) The male has been named by my 7 year old -- "Mr. Hubba Hubba" because of the conversations I pretend that the fish are having when they posture.

I do have red wrigglers in the growbeds, but I never have fed them anything. You are suggesting burying fruit peelings in the growbeds? Someone else was doing something like that, but I don't recall who. I was supplementing with a 0-5-5 liquid organic fertilizer, but that messed with my pH. I do need to go get another bottle of chelated iron, so for fun, I might see what other organic supplements might be available for P and K. I believe that as the system has matured, I am having less problem with deficiencies. With the basically vegetarian diet of tilapia, I do believe the whole system is lacking in a lot of nutrients that the food for carnivorous fish would provide, but maybe things are stablizing.

I do have some 4-foot fluorescent fixtures already, it's just a matter of getting inspired to suspend one or two above a growbed. It will require some creative thought, but it had occurred to me that perhaps I should try something. I hate to keep burning the electricity, and we're now approaching the water-heating season, but hey, this is a science project, right? How will I learn if I don't experiment?

Dank/Janet.... Potassium is almost as important for flower growth as phosphorus as it triggers the flower buds to open...

And is essential to fruit formation.... most flower/fruit drop can be traced to a potassium deficiency....

From this link ... http://www.barerootshydro.com/faq/nutrprob.htm



As you are feeding you system potassium bicarb as a buffering agent then any problems will probably be more phosphorus related as Dank suggestes....

How about burying a banana in the grow beds?

VB was burying bananas in his grow bed

I think it was Johnnyau that said he had actually burned tomato plants and then used the ashes in a solution to provide minerals in a hydroponic solution. It sounded reasonable to me. But I am no chemist or biologist.

His idea for a small scoop of fresh cow manure in the water of my system did wonders for greening things up. Seems to have provided plenty of iron to clear up deficiencies and I would think it would contain pretty good levels of phosphorus as well depending on where the cows pasture.

I think it was Johnnyau that said he had actually burned tomato plants and then used the ashes in a solution to provide minerals in a hydroponic solution. It sounded reasonable to me. But I am no chemist or biologist.

His idea for a small scoop of fresh cow manure in the water of my system did wonders for greening things up. Seems to have provided plenty of iron to clear up deficiencies and I would think it would contain pretty good levels of phosphorus as well depending on where the cows pasture.

Well, cow manure is a nice natural idea, but not inside my house. I'm also thinking that I just don't want decaying fruit inside the house. Too many potentials for stink and fruit flies in the house.

I got another bottle of chelated iron, and found some Triple Phosphate, too. As Rupe points out, buffering with potassium bicarb should provide potassium, I obviously have the nitrate in hand, and if anything is lacking, it would be phosphorous. I put a half-spoonful of the phosphate in the system last night, with no adverse effects on the fish. This morning I put one additional spoonful in. We'll see how that goes.

The female breeders are feeling much better and have stopped hiding. They're both still scraped up, but no signs of infection so far. The one sharing the tank with the male will hang out next to the divider, but hasn't started flirting with him. She is the one who spit her eggs, so it may take some time for her ovaries to reset. Things are encouraging. I guess after a week, I'll do a partial water change on the aquariums to reduce the salt level, and see if Mr. Hubba Hubba can do business through a divider. (Note to self: Don't dump the salty water into the main system.)

I put two of my Tilapia together -- they've been together for at least a month now, and no babies. The small one spent most of her time hiding so I hoped she had a mouthful of eggs.

but then the other day she raced out to get some food and the Male lunged at her and chased her all over the tank. She's pretty battered. At least I assume its a she.....
I'm wondering if I should separate them for a while, introduce the male, and then take him out after a week or so.

Ems, it will be very obvious if she has eggs. Her throat will be puffed out, and she will hold her lips tightly together.

If 'she' is fleeing, either she's not ready to spawn, or it is a smaller male. I would suggest using a divider like I am so 'she' can heal, and maybe make friends with her companion through the divider first.

I can recognize the "broody" fish look, but she's been hiding in a dark pipe so it was hard to see her(?) mouth.

What do you feed your babies when they hatch?
I suppose I might have a batch of babies hiding and not even know it. Where do they babies hide when they're free swinmming?