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 Post subject: An Apology From mokevinb
PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 03:48 
Bordering on Legend
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Joined: May 5th, '07, 20:41
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Awhile back I made some comments on the 9/11 thread which were intemperate and innappropriate and I would like to apologize to anyone that I offended. My words were not meant to denigrate or derate anyone, they were simply words expressed out of anger and frustration.

I felt as if my nation and I had been placed under attack by people who are our allies. While everyone has the right to express thier views, the problem becomes when your stand is not the popular one of the moment.

EB, I did not mean to imply that all Australians, and other citizens of the world, take the view that Al Qaeda is in the right, simply that a number of the views posted seem to discount facts which give more creditability to the stand of the US than it does to Al Qaeda. As to the conspiracy theorys involving 9/11 they were first reported by Al Jasira, then repeated by the US press. Possibly your reporting failed in mentioning where the reports came from. (One recent survey by the BBC showed that most Palestinians and Arabs were of the belief that the reports from Al Jasira was the truth about who planned and carried out the attacks on 9/11.) The biggest problem with Al Qaeda is that they have tentacles encompassing the globe and with time will begin lashing out against other countries (the Phillipines, the Sudan, and South America) in an attempt to force others to bend to thier will. I am afraid that Australia may feel the venom of the poisonous serpent called Al Qaeda, and failure to recognize your vulnerability will cause you greater losses than what it has us.
When I said that most veterans would like to see thier old enemies from the Second World War treated in a barbarous manner, this is from my own personal contacts with them. Most of these veterans were involved in direct face to face, hand to hand combat and developed thier anger and hatred because of the manner in which the enemy fought and treated captured soldiers/sailors and airmen. This sentiment also runs through people who were residents of occupied islands, and countries. Take a look at the civilian concentration camps of the Phillipines and China, and the survivors from them. Then there are the women who were forced into Prostitution by the Japanese. The government of Japan is just now coming into recognizing what they did and are attempting to make ammends for it. While some veterans and victims of the Second World War have come to the belief that the Japanese were only acting under orders from superiors, the majority still believe that individual Japanese soldiers had the moral obligation to act in a manner much more fitting to a civilized nation. (That was the reason why they held war crimes trials after the war, in both Germany and Japan. While superior officers were responsible for giving orders and planning military actions, soldiers had discretion in how cruelly they carried those orders out.)
As to my not referring to the President of Iran by his real name, I was using SARCASM, something which you evidently didn't catch. We Americans have been characterized as arrogant, boorish, ego-centric, angry and hateful people. The truth is much further from the characterizations. The US was the first country to promote the idea of a League of Nations, after the First World War, to help in airing differences and reaching compromises. We saw the failure of the Treaty of Versailles, and how the demand for War Repairations caused great financial hardship on the Axis powers after the First World War and helped to precipitate the Second World War. Instead we fought to rebuild the war ravaged nations of Europe and the islands of Japan. Then we fought to get the UN after the Second World War, and have been the home for it's headquarters for over 50 years! We have always been the biggest financial supporter of the UN since its inception, and have funded many humanitarian relief projects around the world. We have supplied and backed many small nations from aggressive neighboring and foriegn powers, and in many instances never recieved back nearly what we put out. You are right that the UN voted against the military action in Iraq, but I have to wonder how much of that vote came about because of violations of the Oil for Food program by Saddam Hussein and Kojo Annan, France, Germany and Russia. Plus I am non-plussed by the fact that Kojo seems to have only gotten by with a tongue clucking from Daddy Kofi, and NOTHING has been done or said to France, Germany or Russia about thier involvement.

Once again, I apologize for my comments that offended others, but just like you, I have an opinion too.
Kevin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 07:17 
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:)


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 07:41 
Fair enough Kev, as you say you, like anyone else, has a perfect right to their opinions(s).....

While most of what you say is true ....

Quote:
We have always been the biggest financial supporter of the UN since its inception


Sadly this isn't true.... the US is one of the few member states that has consistently [s]refused [/s] failed to meet it's fees and financial obligations to the UN body.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ed_Nations

Quote:
U.S. owes to the UN currently total over $1.3 billion.


Quote:
U.S. debt to the United Nations, from 1995 to 2005 Year Regular budget Peacekeeping Total
1995-12-31 31 December 1995 $414 million (73%) $816 million (47%) $1.231 billion (56%)
1996-12-31 31 December 1996 $376 million (74%) $926 million (57%) $1.303 billion (61%)
1997-12-31 31 December 1997 $373 million (79%) $940 million (60%) $1.313 billion (64%)
1998-12-31 31 December 1998 $316 million (76%) $976 million (61%) $1.294 billion (64%)
1999-12-31 31 December 1999 $167 million (68%) $995 million (67%) $1.170 billion (67%)
2000-12-31 31 December 2000 $165 million (74%) $1.144 billion (56%) $1.321 billion (58%)
2001-12-31 31 December 2001 $165 million (69%) $691 million (38%) $871 million (41%)
2002-12-31 31 December 2002 $190 million (62%) $536 million (40%) $738 million (44%)
2003-12-31 31 December 2003 $268 million (61%) $482 million (45%) $762 million (48%)
2004-12-31 31 December 2004 $241 million (68%) $722 million (28%) $975 million (33%)
2005-09-30 30 September 2005 $607 million (82%) $607 million (28%) $1.246 billion (41%)


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 09:41 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Joined: Aug 7th, '06, 20:07
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Mmm... thought it was some thing like that!
Rup, do you have the stats on the spend in Iraq?
Both civil and deployment.


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 10:05 
The Australian government has refused to make costings avaialable and the opposition has been too gutless to ask....

I'm led to believe it's in the order of $200-300 million/year....

Edited : Found this C1

Quote:
According to the Herald, in March, Australia's commitment to the Iraq conflict has cost taxpayers upwards of $3bn



In the US if Bush gets the latest yearly allocation through ($124 Billion), it would bring the "allocated" funding to just over $1 trillion ......

Hummm .... I wonder if a $1 trillion investment in infrastructure and economic development and aid to a new Palestinian state might have been a better "anti-terrorist" and/or regional strategy :wink:


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 11:15 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Location: margaret river West Oz
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US$1T ( $1,000,000,000,000,) geez a bit of cash goes a long way.
That US contribution would be $3333 for every man woman and child in the US, based on 300M people!
That is prolly enough to wipe out every personal credit card in the US.
or buy 333333 X US$300,000 homes.

Our contribution is only 60 X $50,000,000 hospitals
or 6666 X $450,000 homes!


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 11:27 
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Every day I pass a big billboard that says Get the US out of the UN, which is extremely ironic considering the US controls the UN, mostly.


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 11:30 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Joined: Aug 7th, '06, 20:07
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Location: margaret river West Oz
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Location: Western Australia
Are you into graffiti DD?


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 11:35 
Quote:
Our contribution is only 60 X $50,000,000 hospitals or 6666 X $450,000 homes!


From the same Herald article C1 ...
Quote:
At a casual teacher's daily rate of roughly $270 this would cover 11,111,111 days of teacher time. In real terms this would be the equivalent of 30,441.4 new teachers in Australian schools. So who's to blame for falling standards in public education????


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 11:36 
In need of a life
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That $1 Trillion dollars could give $1000 to every person stricken by poverty in the world. More than they'd make in a decade.

Plus. Mokevinb... WHY start another thread on this topic. There is already 2 threads that are based on this. Why not leave it at that?


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 11:37 
Now there's a foreign policy initiative that might win peoples hearts and minds :wink:


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 11:38 
.... or probably a million clean water wells......


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 11:39 
Bet Osama and his band of dreary arseholes would have trouble "spinning" that kind of imperialist action.... eh


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 11:42 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Joined: Aug 7th, '06, 20:07
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Location: margaret river West Oz
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Location: Western Australia
66,666,666 solar power houses ($15000 per unit) fully funded.
Geez that would take out a few power stations!


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '07, 12:05 
Almost divorced
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http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/24236.htm
http://www.eyeontheun.org/facts.asp?1=1&p=15

You tell only part of the story.


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