Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

This is at the heart of your belief system that makes you different than most others. Under threat of being killed, you can bet I'll be the last one standing, or at least die trying...I feel sorry for your children. Mine are taught to defend themselves, to not let others take away thier dignity, self respect, rights, or humanity.

I lived next door to a Vietnamese man and his family in Melbourne.
I became friends with him.

We were drinking wine one afternoon and I tried to pick his brain about the war in Vietnam, his English was very average,he piped up with,
"I dont like soldiers" " they Kill people"

He told me that his wife,s family and three of his family had been killed
during the war.
I asked him which army had killed his family, he said,
"What difference does that make"
I was struck by the honesty of his answer and the naieveness of my Question.
In 1972 I was 18 yrs old,like most of the boys I knew, we felt we would be sent to Vietnam, but we were "saved by Gough Whitlam"

Thanks to subversive information being filtered through to the youth of the day via musicians,writers and other creative minds,we began to see that the "State" sends it,s military men and women off to other countries to kill people because the ruling classes decide they want a war.

We realised these wars had nothing to do with "you or me"
They have nothing to do with defense or spreading democracy
or overcoming "Evil Rougue Leaders"

Wars are done in the interests of the ruling classes
who propagandise a sentimental message of patriotism,
And even patriotism is.nt enough.

The soldier or the citizen must be given a "moral stake"in a war
a"moral responsibility" to put down "evil"

.
I read recently that Cindy Sheehan finally figured out that the "System" was the real problem and" that sudden" realisation is what caused her to give up her fight against the obscene killing of other people in foreign countries.

What is the system? Is this not merely a euphemism for the State?
And what propels the aggrandisement of the State?
The Military,and what propels the military?
Among other thing our sentimental attachment to soldiers.

Personally I have little sympathy for hired killers.
Why not call a spade a spade,soldiers are paid trained killers.

My Vietnamese friend also after a while piped up with
"Patriotism is for fools" his first hand experience has taught him to refuse to sentimentalise what it is a soldier does.

The constant drone on television of parents telling us how their kids died in the "Fight for Freedom" sucks us in even further.
The "System: in one way or an other will turn us all into cannon fodder,
Only if we let it.
I,m sorry if I offend anyone but a dissenting voice is rare these days and I believe needs to be heard.
Back to my brocolli and beetroot and silvers.

Yup, I'm pretty offended, Vince.

I don't appreciate the generalizations about Americans all being violent. Did you have any other racial/gender/religious prejudices you'd like to share? I prefer to judge and be judged on an individual basis.

I don't appreciate the assumption that we Americans all agree with what our government does, or that we as individuals are the same as our government. I personally don't believe we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan or (fill in the blank). I think we ought to keep our nose out of a lot of things on the international front, but the president didn't ask my advice on those points.

I don't appreciate equating soldiers to hired killers. Soldiers enlist for many reasons like paying for their education or to develop marketable skills, but generally not for blood lust. They do what they are ordered to do whether they agree with it. To dis-obey or desert ensures harsh penalty.

I'm going to stop here.

Good Day. Gentlemen.

It is very dangerous to pigeonhole people.

I deliberately have not become involved in this thread. Given that it is in the general banter area and we at BYAP are all for free speech and against censorship (within reason), this thread will be allowed to continue.

I would however ask that respect be given not only for people's views but also due regard be given to their feelings.

I do not believe that wide sweeping statements about the nature of all citizens of a country are helpful. Just as I am upset by people making broad sweeping claims about the treatment of aboriginals by Australians, many of whom speak from a position of ignorance, I would not dream of making generalised statements about our American friends.

Just remember that what has drawn us here is our common interest in aquaponics, which for many has stemmed from many admirable qualities which have no relationship to country of origin.

Vince - while I respect your right to express your views, I feel it is unfortunate that your only 2 posts on the forum to date are in this thread and have created some angst for some members. I would encourage you to post more about your interests in Aquaponics so that people can get to know you better in that regard.

It is the media that controls our feelings and views on other people and other nations. I know for a fact that Americans can't all be the same, but we create generalizations and stereotypes based on what we hear and read.

There is never any good news on TV. We are reminded everyday what is going on "Over there". The media has cashed in on it, making movies and TV shows (over there, Flight..., Countlesst documentaries), they make ridiculous movies about americans fighting in Saudi Arabia... To what purpose other than to create a mind set and a fear in other people. Or to set up the next campaign in the war on terror.

You can blame us for the views we sometimes share, how many box office movies have there been depicting American soldiers in overblown and senseless violence. How much fear must these movies be causing. The terrorists don't have to do anything when the media is fighting for them.

"Loose Change" is a very convincing and shocking story, thats because it is a documentary meant to disrupt the trust in the government. Again to incite fear and anger. It is true that there are many inconsistencies in the events on 9/11, most of which will never be answered, but I would hate to think a government could be capable of inciting war at the expense of so many lives. Like all good conspiracies we will never know the real truth.

Many people are so influenced by what they hear that they begin to hate everyone that fits the bill of a terrorist. Some people believe that they should be locked up, deported. They see a turban and immediately think terrorist. I would hate to be a muslim, arab, sikh, hindu or islamic living in a country full of hatred towards them.

Again not everyone in isreal, pakistan, lebanon, iran, iraq, afganistan etc. carries a gun, or know how to make bombs. You will find more people know how to fire a gun in America than they do in those countries. They have been in a religious war for many, many years, however only the extremists, or fundamentalists still carry on and continue to cause hatred and death in the region.There are many thousands of innocent people dying and suffering because of it.

The soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan knew exactly what they signed up for. They just never knew that they would have to go fight in such a hopeless and futile war.

Believe what you want, think what you want to want to think. Don't believe everything you see on TV and never take that bullshit to heart. We are all smart enough to do what is right and moral and see what is truly happening.

WOW,

i Did not now this thred was still going on.

a lot to read,
i have read some, but not all.

ok

WWIII has started, it started with the 7 day war.

ok look,

what ever the american goverment dose, the american people say's the oppoist.

it is like,

the goverment can envade any country (with the right excuess)

then..

the people can say they dont want any war (with the right news media)

it makes american goverment look strong, and makes the people look like we are not a hole bunch of A-holes.

there was a South Park epsiode on this same thing. look it up. and love it.



i dont know about any of you, i will fight till i am dead. i dont belieave in an after life... ....

there is know heaven or hell!!

but i wish there where. i pray that theres a heaven.

that whould be nice.

i whould be at peace if there was an after life.


i will fight anyone who takes my happyness away. that is the only heaven i have got.

my heaven was disturbed on 9/11. and the people responceable will never feel my fergiveness.

but seence 9/11 my life has not gotton worse.

they only made it worse for there own people(terriost).



i remembering watching a movie a wile back

"TORA, TORA, TORA"

there is a line in there, when a Japeniese officer says "we have awaken an sleeping gient"


What i love about WWII, is that we DID what ever needed to be done, not we just Talk about what needs to be done, and say, "we'll we cant do that". "that mission will take 400,000 men, and 300,000 of are men are asleep and it whould be not pollite to wake them. so we cant take the mission."




ok to some up.

1. most americans think that are own goverment is obpressive.

2. i will fight to my death to stay happy.

3. well, i dont have a 3 but you got my point.

I don't know Vince personally, and I'm aware that he may have trodden on a few sensitivities with perhaps the bluntness of his expression of his views... particularly in the thread involved....

However I am aware, and you'll see the same reflected in his biography that Vince has been an outspoken advocate against war and violence for many years... he is also an avid, dedicated conservationist, and one who is willing to act not just talk.

As I say, his expression of his point of view has obviously touched on peoples sensitivities, but he has been quietly reading through this forum for many months and has indicated that he is about to commence building a system.

His interest in AP is obvious and I think we should perhaps be prepared to extend a welcome to him on that positive aspect.

Despite the political and ideological differences of many here within the forum, here at least we can and generally are bound by a common goal and mind set.... one which ultimately is more aligned I believe to the overall good of humanity than the current state of foreign policies of both our governments would appear to be.

As my signature suggest, I do have some belief that Vince has a point of view that is shared by many people in the world and a point of view that must, for the benefit of ALL humanity, be raised and heard.....

The future of our children and all humanity is at stake in the next decade....

I for one would hope that WAR is NOT the only option discussed.

This thread started as a remembrance of those that died on 9/11....

Perhaps this thread should be closed with the remembrance of those innocents of all nationalities that died in that tragic event and those innocents of all nationalities that have died since....

Perhaps from this we should all reflect on the futility of violence, hippocracy and religious fundamentalism that crosses from the pulpit into the corridors of power and distorts the minds of lesser people toward subjugation of others for evil means.....

And that does include us....

Nuff said?

Tim you are so right about people seeing others through TV. Some years ago my husband and I went to Ukraine. On the way we met people that thought Americans were like the Dukes of Hazard. If you have never seen it, it was a lot of fun but not like most of the population, (well, maybe a few)
I also have not said much as these kinds of talks never solve the problems that our world has. We as AP junkies have made so many great friends that are in so many countries. As you read the thousands of posts, or at least attempt to, you will see great people sharing a love for thier family and friends. I believe that we should all remember the hardships of each nation, and all of us have our stories and times of woe. We can continue to encourage each other and maybe solve the one problem that we can, how to build a better "mousetrap" or growbed, how to get your PH balanced, and maybe even find the best wine to go with your fish dinner.

Nicely put Joyce and Rup!
We all have our own backyard wars going on, lets fix ours first.
Then with that knowledge we can help others to stop the fighting and put an end to wars.
Saving our energies to look after the ones in most need - kids!
for they are our/their future and we don't wont them tarnished with the same idiologies to keeps humans killing each other!

was also my dads birthday

Here is one last thought... If someone happened to come up with a way to completely eradicate all guns and warfare in the world and the governments agreed to stop making weapons. Would you consider that a good thing or a bad thing? And why?

I was asked a similar question at school.. We got some very interesting answers....

Tim, that is the one thing that people have been trying to do for how many thousands of years. Its not the issue of guns, take guns away there are still knives, take knives away there are still fists. There have always been wars and rumors of wars. The talk now in the United Nations is to bring all nations together and unite them into a one world government, sound familiar. We see fighting in families because one person has something the other has. You cannot change the world until the hearts of people have been changed. This takes a much bigger source than us to accomplish, sooo, we will continue to pray for our countries and for the hearts of people.

So therefore it is human nature that we want what we can't have, but then we want everything... And isn't that the cause of every war on this planet... How do we change if it is written into our very souls?

I bet everyone here has had the "If I had a million dollars..." moment. Some people continue to live their lives in a never ending struggle to get the million dollars, where as some people either by chance (lottery), hard work or inheritance make this goal, but in the end their not happy either. What about the new car your neighbor has; his wife or the barrels of oil; or the holy or sacred land? Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Apathy, Wrath, Envy and Pride... Sound familiar. They are the seven downfalls of humanity, but at the same time they are what makes us human. It will not and can't be changed. See the movie 'Equilibrium' for a excellent depiction of world without sin and how human nature will ultimately revert back?

I think our common goal here at BAP, is one of the few steps in changing the way we live. We reduce our reliance on the government and the shops. We start to eat healthier food, we achieve something worth being proud of. The precipice of being able to be self sufficient is a goal worth much more than a million dollars.

You got it Tim. I haven't seen the movie, and yes the world will only get better if there were no sin, however, that won't happen for at least another 1,000 years plus some, however, that goes into a discussion of religion, and everyone knows that discussing politics and religion start arguments, and seeing that this site has caused enough of that we will stick to the AP that we all love so much. I do agree that we all need to reduce our reliance on the government and seek to live healthier lives through the foods that we eat.

I am sorry, I need to give a little disclaimer about my self, and I post how I talk.

I talk with a lot of curse words, passion and a lot of dry humor.

It’s hard to incorporate that into a post. I talk with humor as my voice. Or try to. lol.

I am sorry about my grim out look on life; I am still trying to find peace with my self, my inner harmony. if you take a look at my zodiac sign, I am extremely Pisces and Dragon (Chinese)

contivplative, imaginative, and bull headed.






hey Vince,

I wasn’t able to read your post before I posted my last post, but I read it, it was great. Buddy, you know what you are talking about. I love hearing everyone views, there so entertaining. and it gives me more perspective on the topic.

you are going to be a grate, compassionate member of are forum, and welcome to BYAP!

I am a classical trained saxophonist and bass guitar player.

so as a life long musician, I am honored. and I can’t wait for your AP systems.


because I enjoy your opinions so much on this topic, I am going to ask the MODs to try and keep it open.

But only if it dose not turn into a war.
Try to keep every thing respectful.

think you for all of your time, and let have fun with this.

-df