Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

hahaha - you walked into that one Axl

HSM is not as effective as HSM colon shock colon (HSM )

Latest update:
The system is cycling, and I have used one of the P words and am applying the other.

I ordered a Master Test Kit tonight, now to wait for AP *(Aust Post) to deliver, then I can learn to drive it.


A month ago, Johnnie7Oz advised me to install a gravel filter, using an air line and a pipe to suck water thru it, in my goldfish pond. This cleared up the pond somewhat.
As I am looking for a source of bacteria to colonise my GB, would washing this gravel into my sump assist in the bacteria colonisation process?
I felt it would, so I washed the gravel into the sump and the whole lot turned green and smelt very "fishy".
I returned the gravel filter to operation in the goldfish pond.

Overnight, the water has turned clear and the "fishy" smell has dissipated completely. I am cycling the pump 15:45. The sump goes from full to around 30-40% capacity before the timer shuts it down. Most of the water is recirculated back to the sump from the pump outlet.

With the Master Kit I should be able to test the water to see if I did the right thing --- right?

Should I take a bucket or 2 of the pond water and add that to my sump for the cycling?
Should I take a few goldies and use them to add ammonia to the system?

I am waiting on my fish tank (Joel's largest!), and shall plumb it into the system once I have it.

Regards,
Tony

Every bacteria you add to your system now will speed up the process. Gravel, sponges, the water will all help it. Look up the ideal pH ranges for the bacteria and buffer it somewhat if necessary, try and get it close to ideal conditions as possible.

I can can see you are very 'P'atient so take your time with it all.

Right on target, Tony! I cycled my system up starting with 2 goldfish from my pond and some filter muck. I slowly added a total of 6 goldfish. Then 126 tilapia fingerlings arrived. Still a bit of HSM, but without the goldfish to get started, it would have had a mess.

Just adding.....

I think that the term cycled should be used very carefully around here.

If it WAS possible to accurately measure and predict how much ammonia say for example, 100 silver perch would produce then it could be possible to cycle your system to be ready to accept those 100 fish straight away, by supplementing with ammonia.

The nitrifying bacteria will only replicate in an abundance of ammonia. eg. The population would be proportional to the ammonia being produced. So once the system is 'cycled' using say 10 goldfish, it is not an immediate invitation to add 100 fish. It has to be done gradually, I believe that is where a lot of the mistakes have been made of late.

Tony, you seem like the ideal candidate to set an example on how a system should be started. Taking it a step at a time. I think you'll be the first member to have his grow beds cycling before he has a fish tank. Good job.

A message to your nitrosomus.... go forth and multiply...

I actually have seen some numbers on how much ammonia tilapia will generate, and then calculations on the optimal volume of biomedia, but there are so many variables, including flow-rate and pH, and temperature that it just gets a bit ridiculous. And then there's the difficulty of buying 'just a few' of the type fish we use.

When I had my tilapia shipped in, the shipping cost nearly as much as the fish. So getting 'just a few' tilapia was not an option for me. Given that, the important thing is to cycle up a decent fishload as best you can and create optimal conditions for the bacteria. Then when you do drop a lot of fish in at one time, don't feed them! And if you can, remove the fish you cycled with. Although my timing wasn't perfect, I moved my goldfish out of the AP system, and on to cycling up two aquariums. By the time they were done with that, the weather was warm, and they could go back to their outdoor pond.

I hope it didn't seem I was having a go at your system Janet.... You handled very well from memory. Didn't you have the bag break in the postage. You lost more fish then then you have since and even then it wasn't many. (Other than ones you have eaten... ).

I didn't think you were having a go at my system, Tim. I know that's not your style, and it didn't even sound like it anyway! I totally agree that there is a distinction to be made that 'cycled' is tightly couple with the fish mass, and 'cycled for 10 fish' is not the same as 'cycled for 100 fish'.

Actually, 165 tilapia fingerlings arrived in a broken bag, with only 3 cups of water remaining. Oh, and in the dead of winter, with saturated heat packs not working. About 35 tilapia were DOA, and I lost a few more in the first few days--I'm chalking those up to transit shock, and don't claim responsibility for those. So I count 126 as my starting number. Then I gave half to Dave Donley, so I had 63. From that point onward, I have lost only one to unknown causes. (Beat that! ) I did cull some--the original plan was to cull females, but it ended up that I just culled little ones. And of course I have eaten some. Yummy. My count is about 40 now remaining in the AP system, 3 breeders held aside, and 40-50 fingerlings from the first breedings in an aquarium. I will do a final cull of the fingerlings before I drop 30 of them into the AP system in the next month or so. I think 30 (rather than 63) is a better batch size if I can pre-cull them. I can also overlap batches a bit then.

I had some challenges with ammonia when I dropped in fish initially, and again when my pH was off, but I have not lost fish because of it. It would have been better if I didn't feed the initial fish for the first week I had them, but they were just so cute. I did partial water changes instead while cycling up the rest of the way, but folks in drought areas may not have that option.

I'm no expert, but my guess is that if you have a large enough gravel bed to support 100 fish and you get the system "cycled" with 10 fish it shouldn't be too much trouble to increase to 100 fish -- the ammonia and nitrite levels might spike for the first few days but you'll have a healthy colony of bacteria as "broodstock".

Tony, I cycled up using gunk from the living room aquarium and a bottle of pure ammonia, going from 0 to 60 tilapia without using fish in between. The cycling took about two weeks and after that I was confident that the bacteria could handle a good amount of ammonia from the new fish. The trick is finding pure ammonia. I had to look in about 8 different stores, some bottles foamed when you shook them which means they had detergents which would kill the fish. If you can source some that may help.

A gas generating rig using Ammonium Chloride and Calcium hydroxide and a little gentle heat will produce gaseous ammonia which could be piped directly into the pond. Ammonia gas is extremely soluble.

I think a chicken manure tea would be just as useful though!

Good idea Johnnie, hadn't thought of bird poop. My Dad raises homing pigeons, that would probably work well too, although he medicates them from time to time for lice, etc.

Start peeing in it now - that works great as well!

Johnnie,
I have chickens.
What is your recipe for chicken poop tea (YUKKK)?

Thanks all for your support.

Tony

I added 5 goldfish yesterday (5 for $10). 3 seem to like swimming against the circulating water when the pump is on, 2 seem to take the middle and swim lazily around the centre.


My Master Test Kit arrived today.
Here are the readings for the sump water (200 L drum):
NH3 between 2 and 4
NO2 2
NO3 20
pH 8.2

I do not have any plants in the GB yet. Should I start to plant some veggies?
Is the pH OK or should I try to lower it?

Am I getting close?

What are your recommendations?

I have been unwell and took today off work.
I considered making up a 3 half drum GB, but couldn't get the energy to do it.
This flu is a bugger!

Tony

Would have thought that if you were cycled your ammonia and nitrite levels would be zero, or close to, and with the nitrate level you have more plants would be the go....

But sounds like your pH is skewing your figures.... add lemon juice to adjust your pH and assist in completing your cycling..... and keep testing

I think there's enough nitrates there to plant out your growbed(s) and I'd suggest maybe stop the feed to the goldies for a day or two and monitor your figures....