Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

a gas guzzling suv is sustainable, wont we all be oil someday?

Mmm... tough one eh!
have a good night df, time for the fart sack!
and think about collecting methane......hehe

To me sustainable is as the definition provides and therefore I do not have any expectation of ever seeing full sustainability in the things that I do.

There are however segments of my life where I can achieve sustainability. For example - there is no real reason why I should have to purchase seeds or seedlings. Once my rainwater tanks are installed I should not have to use mains supplies to top up my AP or water my soil productive gardens (of course I had to buy the rainwater tanks and plumbing). I should be able to sustainably produce most of the staple vegetables that my family eat (in the soil gardens I don't require external inputs, but the AP will require electricity, fish food and fingerlings - doh). I have dreams of producing my own fish food from ingredients produced onsite - but this may be a pipe dream.

So for me - it is, like some others have said, reducing my reliance on unsustainable farming (and transportation) practices and reducing my footprint.

i think you pretty much summed up my views their as well VB

i dont have any delusions that AP is going to be totaly sustainable without external inputs but for me its about reducing my foot print on the world by trying to produce as much of what i and my family needs without having to spend too much on ataining it

a big bonus for me with Ap is that in dirt gardeing i offten to forget to water the plants when i should .... hopefully ap will solve that particular problem LOL

I support the idea that sustainability is where we replace the nutrients our living on the land takes from it. In a household sense, that includes mulching, composting, using poultry to weed and fertilise the soil between crops (dirt garden) and using manual labour where possible to reduce the reliance on external inputs. It also includes using human wastes to generate methane (future project) and the spent manure becomes humus for the soil. Ash from the heating stove can be spread on the soil from which the firewood was sourced. The use of 'wastes' from industry (sawdust) to supplement my energy needs can also add to sustainability.
I also have a solar power system to reduce our need for that external input. When I erect my wind generator, I hope to reduce it further.

I aim to live a full life and leave a very small ecological footprint.
I hope that BYAP will help me achieve that goal.

I was on what I call a "thought trip" wile walking on the shores on the Salton Sea(my avatar) and I was thinking of my Definition of Sustainable.
I started to think about motor homes; they have Freezers, Toilets, and a Water Heaters, there Fully Self Contained. Every thing you need is right there.

Being fully sustainable will never happen. sucky i know.

All we can do is it be Fully Self Contained.
Or
Fully Prepared.
But that is not as fun to think about as being Sustainable.
But it’s a thought

no, we'll never be 100% sustainable (in=out) but i'd much prefer to be 95% sustainable than 5% sustainable.

I find it funny, out of all of the Animals. Humans seem to be the only one left out of the cycle of life. Us humans seem to have are own cycle (or lack there of) for example when a cow dies, it just lays there until its corpse is gone. When a human dies, we inject it full of chemicals, shove it in a box, and take up (useful) land to "store" them. I am not saying we shouldn’t do these things, its just other animals don’t do this. Because they don’t feel the need to, and they have decomposers to do that for them, and they work just for food.

So I see what you are saying, we are always going to have excess, and land fills will still be filled, but just a lot slower

-df

Sustainablity without a time frame has no meaning.

Modern living is never going to be sustainable (500 years) without impact.

technology is the only way we will be able to control the level of impact.

The problem with old style farming was it had a poor yield per square meter of dirt. one reason poor countries are poor and starving is they lack modern farming methods.

Things like aquaponics as we use it now, is a modern method of farming - I have great hopes poor countries will adopt such things.

To me Sustainable means not having to buy manufactured products to keep it working. It means if the lights go out for good I still eat. $0 input.

Most of the things we do are sustainable to the world as a whole. Most of the “chemical fertilizers” aren’t chemicals at all but are basic elements or natural compounds that are mined and were living at one time. It’s the things that we do to change things on a molecular level that we do the most harm to the Earth. Like plastics that aren’t biodegradable. They start out as plain fossil fuel that has a carbon base like all organic life forms. Then we change it, to a toxic poison forever. Nuclear fuel creates a waste that also lasts virtually forever. Or creating chemical compounds that do not break down or take forever to breakdown.
How we handle the biodegradable materials like burying it in a landfill instead of properly recycling it also creates poisons to our water. Burning plain fossil fuels without the chemical additives would release the carbon to the atmosphere just as any biofuel would do the same, pound for pound. We need to reduce the amount of carbon released to equal or less than (we got some catching up to do) the amount plant life in the world has to recapture the carbon as biomass. We really need to advance solar, wind, and hydroelectric energy. We as a world need to re-grow entire forests to get the carbon back as biomass and reverse the trends in Global Warming. It seems to me burning 200 lbs of firewood or other biomass is very similar in carbon release as 200 lbs of any liquid fuel. Some fuels are cleaner burning more Co2 than Co but same amount of C. Reducing our carbon footprint is the best thing we can do to help sustain our selves as a world.
If the Gluttony in the world’s wealthy nations was reduced to the amounts where we could all live healthy there would be a lot less energy carbon warming the planet. The world’s nations need to figure out how to grow forests in un inhabited areas of the world without harming the indigenous plants and animals. The human population is not going to get any smaller some responsible planning should be done. And planting forests with out managing them only leaves us open to extremely large wildfires that release millions of tons to carbon to the atmosphere. We are stewards of our environment, not to just sit idly by and just let Nature take care of our undoings.

gee,,if I write the truth,,people are going to have their little fantasy green bubbles burst,,,,best I keep reality quiet,,,it's not popular.

+1

On the contrary Chappo.... this is just the sort of thread where you should make your views known

I agree with others that it's not possible to be totally sustainable..... or at least not living the modern lifestyle that we do....

In some sense this lends some credence to Timmy's arguement.

IMO, the level of sustainability any one person acheives will ultimately depend on what level of sacrifice they're prepared to make in their lifestyle.... technology may/will help in that regard Timmy....

To me it's all directly related to lowering your level of "consumption"...

And here's where I depart from you Timmy... in as much as technology may provide individuals with some means to lower their consumption.... it's not really the major factor...

It comes down to the oft quoted matter of "choice".....

Industry is driven by profit and growth.... a direct contradiction to "sustainability".... and constantly encourages us to fulfill those aims... by consumption....

And industry will lobby mighty hard to restrict the individuals right to "choice", if by so doing too many individuals lower their consumption to the point where profitability and growth is threatened

A classic example.... California's zero emmisions laws of the early '90s... and GM EV1 electric car.... both killed off by corporate lobbying...

The need for sustainability was there then... as recent petrol prices/shocks indicate... the desire was there, hence the market was there.... the potential growth was there..... but the "profitability"???.....

Nah.. it as more profitable to produce hummers and rake in the dollars as the oil prices rose...

Don't forget that many of the automotive companies have representatives of the major oil companies sitting on the boards...

Result.... they killed the electric car ... literally crushed them.... and repealed the zero emmisions laws....

Now GM is closing 4-5 of it's plants to re-tool for the production of electric vehicles... too little too late... maybe... but might "better late than never"....

Perhaps the "technology" aided the decision... but I'm betting it was the predicted oil prices, ultimate shortages.... and plummeting market consumption of gas guzzling cars as consumers were forced to abandon petrol vehiciles.... that forced their hands...

Bottom line.... your level of sustainability depends on your level of consumption... what choices and sacrifices you're prepared to make to lower your level of consumption...

And how long you have the choice to do so... before industry begins enacting laws to restrict/prohibit you from doing so....