Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

i think sustainable might might not mean the same thing to all people. most of what i read about permaculture is about very small scale farming. lots of waste happens on a small farm compared to a large factory farm. as an example i saw a a small 50 acre farm, and a large farm of many 100s of acres while on a trip in the east. the thing i noticed is they both had the same size dumpster out front. i got to looking and it seems that large factory farms have much less waste for the amont of food produced, then do the smaller farms. and is less waste what it is all about? why do all the permaculture people seem to promote the small farms? when a small farm buys a few barrels of fertilizer, do the emptys get sent back to be refilled? when the large farme buys it by the tanker, it seems there is less waste per gallon then the small farm. organic and nonorganic fertilizer is all pakaged the same where i shop. even if you turn in the bottle for recycle more energy will be used to grow food in a small farm then a large one. i know ap solves alot of this, but untill a non electric system is perfected, it will be a only hobby for me.

What does Sustainable mean to me? Umm sounds like an essay.lol.

I view it as, the process of making 1 into 2 but never running out of 1.

that’s the simplest I can put it.

-df

i just think what alot of people are selling as sustainable is very misleading.

MC sustainability is the new catch phrase, there will always be a person willing to mislead and take advantage of any situation, trick is to be informed enough not to be one of the people taken advantage of

I don`t think anything is truely sustainable.
Diversity is probably the best approach ..then you`ll always have a backup

Sustainable. To be able to sustain your self without input from the outside.

For me it is all about being independent from the monster we call consumerism. To be able to live without but still have a good life.

MC I see your point on the difference with large and small farms when both are run using the same model. I think we have to rethink the way we run small farms they have their own identity. For example a friend of mine runs his 20 acre farm with no tractors he just uses horse power. Also he uses compost. The problem is he can not mass produce like the other farms. But what he can do is provide a diversity and be able to live off his own produce. Therefore removing some of his independence on others.

Permaculture systems are used on small properties as well as large properties, I guess it's just that you hear more about the smaller properties. Darren has done permaculture designs for 110,000 acre ranches http://permaculture.biz/index.php

Sustainability to me means exactly what the definition is, that "X" can be carried on indefinately. This will generally mean that you don't have a lot of waste from packagings etc, if your producing a lot of wastes to go in the bin then what your doing is not sustainable..

Ya have to keep in mind though, that just because a large factory farm doesn;t have much waste, doesn;t mean it's not producing much, it just means you can;t see it.. Like hydrogen as a fuel. Hydrogen is not really a fuel as we know it, it's a form of energy storage, they still need huge amounts of energy to produce the hydrogen, but we don;t notice the pollution from making that energy like you might see smoke coming from the back of a car.. Just coz you don;t see the damage locally doesn;t mean it not somewhere else..

my goal is to become as self-suffcent as possible, i feel food and energy will cost alot more in the future if things stay the way they are. i want to keep my family fed and warm even if the us dollar becomes worthless someday.

a bit like perpetual motion... not possible!

All we can do is extend the sustainability of something...
out of wiki..
Sustainability is a characteristic of a process or state that can be maintained at a certain level indefinitely..

I've seen some growing methods that are sustainable. In fact all of the old farming methods were sustainable, they were carried on for century after century, until we decided that modern technologies and methods were a better path to follow. Now the only sustainable methods of food production are carried out in what we term "poor" countries, and most developed nations spend a great deal of time and money trying to convince these "poor" countries to use totally unsustainable methods, because it's a better way to do it.. Strange how mixed up our logic has become..

i think there are many levels of sustainability. a complex web of relationships working in harmony to aid in each others survival.

you have sustainability on a local level where produce can be created by local renewable sources. what is striped from the local environment is then replaced with what is required to sustain what was taken. for example when produce is harvested from the wild such a plants, seeds are planted in its place. this way there is a balance kept in nature. waste is used as a valuable resource to feed the next cycle.

you also have sustainability on a global level. this is made up of each local environment. the sustainability of each local environment will be impacted by other local environments. for example there are a number of small farms down south that are doing they're part in sustainable living. there was a proposal to tap into the water ways down there to "solve" the water crisis in the city. basically the gov wanted to use a band aid fix to the problem rather then educating people on how to save water. thankfully the gov caved in to a public outcry against the proposal.

so when looking at sustainability i think you need to look at how something will effect not just your local environment but the global one. we need to realize that everything we do in life has an impact on everything else. the impact that it has we all have some power of control over. the future of civilization is really in each individuals hands.

To me, sustainable means being in control of my own future-- not trusting government and big business to take care of me. I believe that chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and hybrid seed take control away from farmers and ultimately from consumers.

Sounds like monsanto don't come to your chrissy party ems!!

i have the same ambishion.

a bit like perpetual motion... not possible!
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yup.