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PostPosted: Jul 13th, '07, 14:21 
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Last summer we had the ducted air conditioning on twice, Xmas day and boxing day, cos we had the relies over. We relied on fans the rest of the time.

YTD we have had the fire going four times.

Now either we have all gotten less fussy but I can remember summers when I was a kid where we got sent home because it was 40 degrees for three days in a row. Hardly happened recently.

I have definitely seen programs on solar activity where solar flares have cause heat waves and flash flooding. It only takes 8 minutes for light from the sun to reach earth, who said the sun doesn't change in intensity, how long do the changes last?

OR? Someone screwed up the calendar and clock a few thousand years ago and the seasons are in fact drifting.... :) one thought...


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PostPosted: Jul 13th, '07, 14:36 
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These are only minor incidents, it's a case of general trends of the temperature averages..

It's the earth as a whole, not just what happens to be the microclimate of a particular area.. The "smiley doctor" (can't remember his name) pointed out last night a number of reasons why it just doesn't stack up to try and equate solar activity as being responsible for the global warming trend..

Simple fact of the matter is 98% of scientist agree that mans activities are having an effect on climate. It seems logical that when you pump billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere you would expect some reaction..


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PostPosted: Jul 13th, '07, 14:37 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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and quite a few particulates!


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PostPosted: Jul 17th, '07, 03:54 
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The point that is being made about Al Gore III and his 90 mph hybrid, Arnold Schwartzenegger (sp?) and others in the camp of the pseudo ecologists is that they talk the talk, but fail to walk the walk. They all rally around the flag, but fail in making it to the battle! I would much rather see 10,000 people cutting thier individual fuel consumption by 10%, than another Earth Day Concert where millions of dollars are spent on a high roller party with the side benefit of maybe, just maybe, getting one teenager to turn off the light when they leave the room!

Kevin


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PostPosted: Jul 17th, '07, 05:49 
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In my opinion global warming is taking away from the real issue.

It makes sense from an ecological, strategic and even economical point of view to greatly reduce consumption.

Yes economical too. All the human energy spent on rebuilding things that should have been built to last in the first place cannot be used for other human endeavour.


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PostPosted: Jul 17th, '07, 07:38 
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the best way to reduce consumption is to be poor. billons of people are doing that allready.


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PostPosted: Jul 17th, '07, 09:15 
Any Volunteers ???????


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PostPosted: Jul 17th, '07, 09:18 
As a foot note... I kind of had to giggle a while back when the local theatre put on a special screening of Al Gore's film.......

The car park was chock ablock with nice shiny four wheel drive vehicles, and most of the occupants were dressed like a Hollywood premier.....

Most of them dropped into Maccas on the way home for a quick snack.....


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PostPosted: Jul 17th, '07, 12:55 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Yep their the ones to convert not the others.


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PostPosted: Jul 18th, '07, 03:07 
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There was a point or two made here about global dimming. Take a look on the wire about the sandstorm near Phoenix (?) Arizona. When it went through visibility was near zero and the temp dropped 18 degrees where it went through.

Kevin


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PostPosted: Jul 18th, '07, 09:20 
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Yeah, I first heard about it when a guy who was recording temperatures in the US found that after 9/11, when all planes were grouned, that temperatures had risen a few degree because there were no vapour trails in the sky any more... Or something along those lines...


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PostPosted: Jul 18th, '07, 09:50 
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when I was at uni, my geomorphology lecturer was a firm believer in ice ages. He feels that if there are two cold summers (where the majority of the snow doesn't melt) in a row in Alaska/Canada the albedo (light reflectivity) of the planet will increase to the point where ice won't melt and we'll slip into another ice age.


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PostPosted: Jul 18th, '07, 11:02 
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Something a friend found just to balance the issue.

Quote:
Read the sunspots
The mud at the bottom of B.C. fjords reveals that solar output drives climate change - and that we should prepare now for dangerous global cooling
R. TIMOTHY PATTERSON, Financial Post
Published: Wednesday, June 20, 2007

Politicians and environmentalists these days convey the impression that climate-change research is an exceptionally dull field with little left to discover. We are assured by everyone from David Suzuki to Al Gore to Prime Minister Stephen Harper that "the science is settled." At the recent G8 summit, German Chancellor Angela Merkel even attempted to convince world leaders to play God by restricting carbon-dioxide emissions to a level that would magically limit the rise in world temperatures to 2C.

The fact that science is many years away from properly understanding global climate doesn't seem to bother our leaders at all. Inviting testimony only from those who don't question political orthodoxy on the issue, parliamentarians are charging ahead with the impossible and expensive goal of "stopping global climate change." Liberal MP Ralph Goodale's June 11 House of Commons assertion that Parliament should have "a real good discussion about the potential for carbon capture and sequestration in dealing with carbon dioxide, which has tremendous potential for improving the climate, not only here in Canada but around the world," would be humorous were he, and even the current government, not deadly serious about devoting vast resources to this hopeless crusade.

Climate stability has never been a feature of planet Earth. The only constant about climate is change; it changes continually and, at times, quite rapidly. Many times in the past, temperatures were far higher than today, and occasionally, temperatures were colder. As recently as 6,000 years ago, it was about 3C warmer than now. Ten thousand years ago, while the world was coming out of the thou-sand-year-long "Younger Dryas" cold episode, temperatures rose as much as 6C in a decade -- 100 times faster than the past century's 0.6C warming that has so upset environmentalists.

Climate-change research is now literally exploding with new findings. Since the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, the field has had more research than in all previous years combined and the discoveries are completely shattering the myths. For example, I and the first-class scientists I work with are consistently finding excellent correlations between the regular fluctuations in the brightness of the sun and earthly climate. This is not surprising. The sun and the stars are the ultimate source of all energy on the planet.

My interest in the current climate-change debate was triggered in 1998, when I was funded by a Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council strategic project grant to determine if there were regular cycles in West Coast fish productivity. As a result of wide swings in the populations of anchovies, herring and other commercially important West Coast fish stock, fisheries managers were having a very difficult time establishing appropriate fishing quotas. One season there would be abundant stock and broad harvesting would be acceptable; the very next year the fisheries would collapse. No one really knew why or how to predict the future health of this crucially important resource.


Although climate was suspected to play a significant role in marine productivity, only since the beginning of the 20th century have accurate fishing and temperature records been kept in this region of the northeast Pacific. We needed indicators of fish productivity over thousands of years to see whether there were recurring cycles in populations and what phenomena may be driving the changes.

My research team began to collect and analyze core samples from the bottom of deep Western Canadian fjords. The regions in which we chose to conduct our research, Effingham Inlet on the West Coast of Vancouver Island, and in 2001, sounds in the Belize-Seymour Inlet complex on the mainland coast of British Columbia, were perfect for this sort of work. The topography of these fjords is such that they contain deep basins that are subject to little water transfer from the open ocean and so water near the bottom is relatively stagnant and very low in oxygen content. As a consequence, the floors of these basins are mostly lifeless and sediment layers build up year after year, undisturbed over millennia.

Using various coring technologies, we have been able to collect more than 5,000 years' worth of mud in these basins, with the oldest layers coming from a depth of about 11 metres below the fjord floor. Clearly visible in our mud cores are annual changes that record the different seasons: corresponding to the cool, rainy winter seasons, we see dark layers composed mostly of dirt washed into the fjord from the land; in the warm summer months we see abundant fossilized fish scales and diatoms (the most common form of phytoplankton, or single-celled ocean plants) that have fallen to the fjord floor from nutrient-rich surface waters. In years when warm summers dominated climate in the region, we clearly see far thicker layers of diatoms and fish scales than we do in cooler years. Ours is one of the highest-quality climate records available anywhere today and in it we see obvious confirmation that natural climate change can be dramatic. For example, in the middle of a 62-year slice of the record at about 4,400 years ago, there was a shift in climate in only a couple of seasons from warm, dry and sunny conditions to one that was mostly cold and rainy for several decades.

Using computers to conduct what is referred to as a "time series analysis" on the colouration and thickness of the annual layers, we have discovered repeated cycles in marine productivity in this, a region larger than Europe. Specifically, we find a very strong and consistent 11-year cycle throughout the whole record in the sediments and diatom remains. This correlates closely to the well-known 11-year "Schwabe" sunspot cycle, during which the output of the sun varies by about 0.1%. Sunspots, violent storms on the surface of the sun, have the effect of increasing solar output, so, by counting the spots visible on the surface of our star, we have an indirect measure of its varying brightness. Such records have been kept for many centuries and match very well with the changes in marine productivity we are observing.


In the sediment, diatom and fish-scale records, we also see longer period cycles, all correlating closely with other well-known regular solar variations. In particular, we see marine productivity cycles that match well with the sun's 75-90-year "Gleissberg Cycle," the 200-500-year "Suess Cycle" and the 1,100-1,500-year "Bond Cycle." The strength of these cycles is seen to vary over time, fading in and out over the millennia. The variation in the sun's brightness over these longer cycles may be many times greater in magnitude than that measured over the short Schwabe cycle and so are seen to impact marine productivity even more significantly.

Our finding of a direct correlation between variations in the brightness of the sun and earthly climate indicators (called "proxies") is not unique. Hundreds of other studies, using proxies from tree rings in Russia's Kola Peninsula to water levels of the Nile, show exactly the same thing: The sun appears to drive climate change.

However, there was a problem. Despite this clear and repeated correlation, the measured variations in incoming solar energy were, on their own, not sufficient to cause the climate changes we have observed in our proxies. In addition, even though the sun is brighter now than at any time in the past 8,000 years, the increase in direct solar input is not calculated to be sufficient to cause the past century's modest warming on its own. There had to be an amplifier of some sort for the sun to be a primary driver of climate change.

Indeed, that is precisely what has been discovered. In a series of groundbreaking scientific papers starting in 2002, Veizer, Shaviv, Carslaw, and most recently Svensmark et al., have collectively demonstrated that as the output of the sun varies, and with it, our star's protective solar wind, varying amounts of galactic cosmic rays from deep space are able to enter our solar system and penetrate the Earth's atmosphere. These cosmic rays enhance cloud formation which, overall, has a cooling effect on the planet. When the sun's energy output is greater, not only does the Earth warm slightly due to direct solar heating, but the stronger solar wind generated during these "high sun" periods blocks many of the cosmic rays from entering our atmosphere. Cloud cover decreases and the Earth warms still more.

The opposite occurs when the sun is less bright. More cosmic rays are able to get through to Earth's atmosphere, more clouds form, and the planet cools more than would otherwise be the case due to direct solar effects alone. This is precisely what happened from the middle of the 17th century into the early 18th century, when the solar energy input to our atmosphere, as indicated by the number of sunspots, was at a minimum and the planet was stuck in the Little Ice Age. These new findings suggest that changes in the output of the sun caused the most recent climate change. By comparison, CO2 variations show little correlation with our planet's climate on long, medium and even short time scales.


In some fields the science is indeed "settled." For example, plate tectonics, once highly controversial, is now so well-established that we rarely see papers on the subject at all. But the science of global climate change is still in its infancy, with many thousands of papers published every year. In a 2003 poll conducted by German environmental researchers Dennis Bray and Hans von Storch, two-thirds of more than 530 climate scientists from 27 countries surveyed did not believe that "the current state of scientific knowledge is developed well enough to allow for a reasonable assessment of the effects of greenhouse gases." About half of those polled stated that the science of climate change was not sufficiently settled to pass the issue over to policymakers at all.

Solar scientists predict that, by 2020, the sun will be starting into its weakest Schwabe solar cycle of the past two centuries, likely leading to unusually cool conditions on Earth. Beginning to plan for adaptation to such a cool period, one which may continue well beyond one 11-year cycle, as did the Little Ice Age, should be a priority for governments. It is global cooling, not warming, that is the major climate threat to the world, especially Canada. As a country at the northern limit to agriculture in the world, it would take very little cooling to destroy much of our food crops, while a warming would only require that we adopt farming techniques practiced to the south of us.

Meantime, we need to continue research into this, the most complex field of science ever tackled, and immediately halt wasted expenditures on the King Canute-like task of "stopping climate change."

R. Timothy Patterson is professor and director of the Ottawa-Carleton Geoscience Centre, Department of Earth Sciences, Carleton University.

From Here


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PostPosted: Jul 26th, '07, 18:53 

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Hi TimC
Just a little add-on to "It is a controversial documentary goes against popular scientific belief and states that humans are not the main contributors to global warming..... "
I did read (New Scientist?) somewhere that it's not that humans are causing the CO2 etc through volume, but that the balance is tipped - the earth produces 300+gigatonnes or something each year and that amount is generally absorbed back into the system - mostly the ocean.
Humans contribution (20+gigatonnnes?) is the 'straw' that maybe breaks the camel's back


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PostPosted: Jul 26th, '07, 22:04 
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List of skeptics, I like to Google people's backgrounds when I read articles relating to global warming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:G ... g_skeptics

There is a lot of big-tobacco-styled spin from oil companies etc. out there right now; it is way important to know where the source is coming from before giving them any credit.

http://www.realclimate.org/

Deniers in Canada:
http://www.charlesmontgomery.ca/mrcool.html


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