Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I've created an account and I'm posting this on behalf of Mathew who is interested in getting some feedback from anyone who may have suggestions for him.. Joel

Hello,

I found your site and have read most if not all of it. Finally my wife is interested in this as well. Thanks.

I have tried to interest her in all of this for some time now and she was very friendly about it, but just thought of it as another one of my projects. Your pictures were very helpful and I think the fact that you show it in your back yard in a very realistic set up (not so commercial) helped as well.

I have been studying this for a number of years, and much of my info. has come from Australia. I got a start finally by filling my in-ground swimming pool with fish ( got tired of waiting). It was clearly not designed to be an aqua-culture tank and I need LOTS more filtration. My pool stays clean, however, it also stays green. The fish are very healthy and the bananas and orange trees (which receive the back wash from my pools sand filter) are very happy. Once the fish grow out a bit more, I should have about 150 to 200 lbs of fish in there. However, that may change, my Blue Gill Perch are spawning and I now have houndreds of babies swimming around. I would like to be able to get my pool up to a max volume of fish, it is about 15,000 gallons of water. I am wondering though, how much plant life am I going to have to grow to be able to filter either the fish that I have, or the fish that I want? It seems to me that it will be way more than I can possibly eat. I would like to grow wheat/barley/oat grass in the system as well to feed my goats (who give me fresh milk and cheese each day), and maybe I can grow something for my 2 pigs as well (who keep the fridge full of bacon/ham/pork chops), they eat a lot. Also, I had thought to raise some Tilapia, they are primarily a forage fish, right? Is there a plant/veggie I could grow to feed them?

Any suggestions you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards
Mathew

Hi Matthew! Welcome! Where to start, where to start....I'll just start writing and try to break things into reasonable paragraphs.

1) Where are you located in the US? Tilapia like it very warm, and for the fact that you mention citrus trees, I'll take a guess at Florida. Tilapia cannot take water temperatures lower than 60F, and would prefer it about 82F. I keep them indoors, and they eat leafy greens (spinach, radish leaves, tomato leaves, bean leaves) and even water hyacinth. (Plus pellets, of course.) Stay away from very fiberous leaves/stems. My problem is that the fibers of leaves clog my pump, so watch that. Water hyacinth (if it isn't illegal down there) grows fast (invasively) and would make great fodder for tilapia, pigs, goats, or what ever you have. Water hyacinth is a floating plant, so you might design some water areas that the tilapia cannot get to.

2) How much acreage do you have, 'cause we're gonna fill it with grow beds!!! Optimal ratio would be 4gal growbed : 2gal fish water : MAX 1 pound fish. Your fish weight is limited more by the filtration (and oxygen) you can provide. So 30,000gal worth of grow beds would be about 4,000 square feet of growbeds at 1 foot deep. That's with no walking paths, so really, I hope your back yard has at least a quarter acre available. If you were really really good, that would support 7500 pounds of fish.

3) Take a deep breath, you should start smaller.

4) The important thing is the ratio between the grow beds and the fishload. And if you don't have a way to measure fishload, measure nitrate. If your nitrate is getting too high, either add more grow beds, or eat fish. You can probably scale up over time by drafting up 'The Big Plan', and then adding growbeds over the next couple years as the fishload goes up. Given a current estimate of 200lb of fish, that would be 800gal of filtration that you need. That would be about 100 square feet of growbeds at 1 foot deep.

5) If the bluegills are breeding that well for you, keep in mind that tilapia are worse than bunnies. They can even overpopulate a pond and stunt their growth if you are not careful. Bluegills are nice eating, too. Although since they eat higher on the food chain, you'll probably be buying more expensive food for them. I wonder if a mixed culture of bluegills and tilapia would work. Maybe the bluegills would keep the tilapia from overpopulating....hmmm.

OK, enough from me for now. Where's Jaymie? You might look up her system; there should be a link in the Large Systems section of the Members Systems section. She has one of the larger operational systems. There are a couple other folks with designs on their swimming pools, but I don't think they've posted lately.

Enjoy the insanity!

Hi Mathew! Welcome on board
Growing wheat/oats/barley is a good idea as it should happen quickly. You should be able to have lots of growbeds for that and plant them in series. Work out how much fodder you need each day for the goats and plant a bed that size. Next day plant another etc. When the crop has reached harvestable size replant the bed and start again. If you have many grow beds you may be able to end up be your own fodder supplier

PS, sorry Janet, at 1.28am I was tucked up in my nice warm bed

Hello,
Thanks Janet and Jaymie for your responses, and of course Joel for your help.

Let me answer a few of your questions first.
Janet,
1)I am in the southern most part of texas, so I don't think temp will ever be a problem. I have recorded my water as cold as 64, but no less, it is probably 85 now. I don't think the Hyacinth is legal here, they even cleared it out of all the canals.
2)I have about 1 1/3 acres, about half of it "could? be available, depends on how much of my yard I am willing to give up. I actually live across the street from city limits on a corner, so, I think I am in a great location to sell from here as well (if things were ever to lead to that). As for supporting 7500 lbs of fish... I am not that good/prepared yet, which is why I am here, to get the necessary info to build the other half of the system... the plant filters. I do have the 1/4 acre available if it comes to that.

3) I am, I am smaller now.

4)I am at the "add grow beds/NFT/DFT/etc." stage now.

I understand that you are using the "1 ft." of grow bed for the bio filter as well as a stable base for the plant... why not go deeper and save sq.ft.? (less plants) or go much shallower and stack or stair step (also saving sq.ft. (same or more plants)??

5)Currently my bass are keeping my Blue gill from over populating. I have separated between 500 and a 1000 of them to a stock tank I had available.

Actually I hope to breed the Tilapia. If I can get reasonably good at that, I would like to get a few of the Ausy species (jade Perch/Sleepy Cod/Murray Cod). That is for if/when I get to the point of selling as well as eating and feeding.

Jaymie,
I have tried raising some of the wheat/barley in a home made open top NFT, it worked quite well. I am trying to figure where is the best place for this in the system. Some one in Australia suggested to me a few years ago that the "grasses" could go at the later end of the system since they did not require much nutrient??? Comments?

Also, you mentioned growing it in a "grow bed" I want to feed the seeds/roots/grass and all. What type of media would you use for this if not in NFT (without media)?

In general, the idea here started off by having each aspect of the system feed me, pay for it self, and help sustain the system.

I know that is the point of aquaponics (which I found out about "after" I began to lay this all out), however, I want the pigs/goats/chickens/etc. to get fed out of this as well. The less feed I have to buy, the less this is a "hobby" which I really don't have time for, and the MORE it makes REAL $EN$E. So far it is going well.

I can eat the best food for less than the worst/cheapest food. If I owe no one $ then I can stay home and still eat well.

I am not quite there, but moving that way.
[quote][/quote]

Hi Mathew!

4) 1 foot deep seems to be about optimal both for giving plants space for roots/canopy, and creating the dark wet places that the beneficial bacteria likes. You need both--bacteria to transform ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, and plants to take up the nitrate. So as a corollary, be sure to contain your growbeds in something that doesn't admit light through the sides if you can. If you happened to find containers that were 10in or 14in deep, go for it. If you wanted to construct out of rubber-lined un-treated lumber, and got a great deal on 8in lumber, that would probably be fine. Work with what you can get within the budget, and that would last well. Bathtubs, 55gal barrels, livestock feed troughs, stock tanks, rubbermaid storage containers...you name it, we've turned them in to growbeds.

5) you will probably have problems getting the Aussie fish. Non-native species, you know. That said, I am aware of some barramundi in the country, and I know you can get some of the giant Aussie crayfish from a place in Florida. Check your local regulations on the critters. Even tilapia are restricted in some states.

Media: Use what you can get cheaply. Many of us use 3/8 inch river gravel, or similarly sized crushed stone. You want something with rough surfaces (so the bacteria has more area and crannies to live in), but not sharp edges (too hard on roots and fingers). Folks also use lava rock and expanded clay (Lecca or Hydroton) with good results. Crushed shell or coral can be added to the growbeds to buffer the pH, and in fact, I have a surprisingly large amount of that in my beds (28 pounds in a total of 150gal worth of growbeds). And remember, you're not a real APer if you don't wash the media!

Grasses at the end: We have had a lot of debates about whether beds in a series would have reduced nutrients by the last bed. It seems intuitive that it would. However, folks are saying it doesn't matter, and I suppose really, you'll just have to try things and see how it works. I am reasonably sure that the first of a series of gravel beds would end up with more of the solids deposited in it, so if you were going to grow fruiting crops, I would put them in the first bed. The solids give a more complete balance of nutrients. So by default, I guess I would put the grasses towards the end.

Oh, btw, if you draw up some plans and post them, we'd love to critique them....and some pictures of the backyard, swimming pool, livestock, kids...we love pictures.

Mattew,
I have a friend who raised pigs almost exclusively on oats sprouts. he had hydroponic trays about 2' wide by 5' long, about 100 of them, and he simply sprouted the oats and grew it to about 10" high and then fed it. The pigs loved it and the oats were cheap enough to get a good conversion.

Having said that, I think what you are proposing is something that could be done in your area. There are some great aquaculture operations in Texas that can provide you with redclaw and other crustaceans as well as Tilapia.

From what I remember when I was looking to move to Texas...most tilapia are illegal or you need a permit. A quick google search pulled up

"Be aware that the mozambique tilapia is the only specie of tilapia that is legal to stock without a permit in the state of Texas because of their low tolerance to cold temperatures."

from http://www.overtonfisheries.com/Stocker ... fault.aspx

Ok, I have spent the best part of the last week reading the posts here, I have not read all 65,000 some odd of them, but a lot of them to be sure.

Janet,
I can get 1/4 inch pea gravel or 2" and up, everything else is being sucked up by construction market and is either not available or tooo expensive. Does any one think this would give any issues with the airation of the roots? (going with 1/4" I mean)

Jaymie,
I most certainly intend on being my own fodder supplier, the trick right now is to figure out how far I can stretch my current matterials in that direction.

Janet,
I found a supplier of expanded shale, but it is not in little round balls, I can not imagine that this would make a difference, as it is prepared the same way. They are sending me samples now, I might could use this in the future, as they only sell in bulk, and although my needs could absorb a truck load of it, my pocket could not. The price was actually about 1/2 of that of Lava rock.

I have looked over Jaymies system, and for some reason I have not been able to see some of the more recent pictures of it. Like the beter view of the upright pipes... I see where she tried to post it, but no pic on my end. I would like to see it.

I love the pic.s of the location Joel put up where the man was running the whole place mostly on his own out in a swamp, I could easily see putting in that kind of volume here (a little different set up though).

I currently have several tanks, and a lot of old lumber (both sticks (2x4's and 2x6's) and plywood). I have pallets (and access to as many as I need either free or cheep) to use as stands for tanks and GB's. I know of a few place to get EPDM liners ( I think all the plastic I have would likely not last long in the gravel),

do you know of a particular "good" supplier of liners? Cheap?

What about a good test kit, I saw the one they recomended over in AUS., what has been the best source here?

DTHAWK,
what's the chance you could get a few pictures of the oat sprout operation? thanks for the encouragement, I have had Tilapia and the great state of TX is trying to 'ban' the "dangerous" Aus. crustaceans.

Bochener,
as for the legality of Tilapia here... I can buy them all day, no problem. Carp on the other hand.... have to have a special license and inspection etc.

Anyone,
Any knowledge as to the fastest growing (non-grass) highest nutrition plant (or mixture there of) that could be used for forage?

I konw that is a lot..... and could be included on a lot of different threads, but, I am excited to finally after a good 4 years of looking and reading and studying to finally be where I can get it going.

Sorry no pictures for now, my camera gave up, I am learning the Sketchup program, so may be some drawings later.

Mathew

I think 1/4 inch pea gravel would be fine, but not 2 inch. I use 3/8 inch pea gravel blended with crushed coral and expanded clay. You want something inert, with a rough surface (not polished or sealed), and affordable. Get what you can!

I get all my aquarium and pond supplies from That Fish Place in Lancaster PA. They are generally competative. Start here for a liner and see if you can do better. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11760/product.web

Test kit from the same place. Mant of us use this one - reasonably accurate and good price. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11391/product.web

Is kudzu legal down there? Very fast-growing and invasive vine. I know goats will eat it. Otherwise, you might try a Google on "fast growing fodder". I'm not familiar with Texas plants enough to know what to suggest.

Thanks Janet,
I have a meeting with the quary owner about 7am tomorrow, we'll see what he'll be willing to do.

As for the test kit, I found better prices, but yours said "800 tests", is that realistic?

Kudzu? know of it.. no more.. I will check in to it.
Thanks for the input.

Mathew, I'll look at fixing those pictures for you later on, might even get some up to date ones

Great,
Thanks!

800 tests--"is that realistic?" I guess I'm confused by your question...it's not 800 tests all of one kind. Description I see says:

This complete kit includes 250 pH (6.0-7.6), 160 high-range PH (7.4-8., 130 ammonia, 110 nitrite, and 90 nitrate tests, as well as four glass test tubes with caps.

Honestly, the bottles of chemicals are small, and you are working with 3-10 drops of any one chemical per test. If you are asking if you will need to do that many tests, well no, I doubt it...not this year anyway. But we're only talking $17.89 here, and trying to buy fewer tests is not going to save you a whole lot.

Sorry Janet,
I miss quoted, http://www.petmountain.com/product/test ... t-kit.html
this is the site that said that.

Do you see any real differences in this one and the one you are used to?