Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Doug - I'm sorry about your losses. Your efforts are commendable thus far and your system is a work of art really. The ONLY thing I come up with is possible leaching of copper if you are using the solar pipe? And even then I am reaching and suspect we will never really know. At this point however, wouldn't you agree that alot of energy has gone into solving your mortality dillemma? How much is this time and effort worth? You are very clearly a master engineer and I respect your knowledge and ability as well as everyone who is pitching in to help. However, I suspect if you put this very same energy into a solution to keeping your tank water temperature at or above 60 degrees in the winter, you would be better off with tilapia. I'm not trying to be critical here, I commend yours and others' efforts and can only watch from the sidelines all the problem solving (because I am a chemistry and biology dunce). I've previously experienced what you are going through at the moment with the exact species of fish. And for what it is worth, my local hatchery expert couldn't help me either (go figure since that is where I bought my fish). Therefore, my conclusion was then, and most certainly still is now, that catfish, bluegill, and perch make poor AP (tank culture) fish. If they worked, you'd see them being used more often in other proven systems. I'm not trying to be a stinkweed Doug, and everyone feel free to ignore me - just sayin'.... you are going down a road less traveled for a reason. Your dedication is commendable, and I wouldn't necessarily conclude that it is "impossible" to use cats and perch in AP, but why hack through a dense forest with a machete when there is a sidewalk 10 yards away? My two cents...... My hat is off to You sir, you are definately blazing a trail.

Yup, I get 100 pounds, too. If you are paranoid (as you should be), run a small scale test in a bucket. Scaling this down...

4000gal : 100lb
40gal : 1lb
10gal : .25 lb
2.5gal : 1oz ...Got a bucket that will hold 2.5gal?

then test with the test kit....of course.

Well, DTHawk managed to kill quite a few tilapia before he got things under control. And Matthew (first post thru EB today) has bluegills coming out of his ears. He loaded up his swimming pool with them, and they are breeding for him!!! http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum ... 3328#63328

It's all a big learning experience, and nothing is absolute! Hang in there.

With all due respect Janet, we don't have much info on Matthew's system that was posted "today", particularly what region he is in. He has a 15,000 gallon mini pond. Bluegill work well in pond culture, I never siad to the contrary. It also sounds as if he has a mature pond as well, which bolsters my argument that some folks are trying to do too many fish before thier system is mature. But matthew sounds like he has only 200 fish in his pond.

Anyway, I'm not saying it is impossible Janet, I'm saying it is use a species that has

1) much research behind it
2) proven AP use
3) greater tolerance of water parameters
4) greater disease resistance
5) low mortality in tank culture


..and in regard to DT Hawk, that is one example that we have little real data on. Could it have been a genetically inbred weak stock? Could it have been that lava rock? Who knows.... but if tilapia were really as fickle as that, you would have chosen another species?

You say hang in there....I say that is irresponsible to use Doug as the expiriment here. He trust that all of us know what we are talking about, yet some folks have been doing AP for less than a year and are biology and chemistry experts?

Doug you asked in another thread how to link to things...

Just go to the page you want to link to....highlight and copy the url address.... then go to your post and paste it.....

If the url is exceedingly long and you just want to point or describe it ... then use the format.....

[url=urlname]description[/url]

i.e to insert this page as a url address... copy the address in the url address bar above and then paste it in your post .....

http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/vie ... 3337#63337


or using the second technique above ...I've left the "[" off the start & the "]" off the end... to show the command

url=http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63337#63337] Like This [/url

Which would look Like This .....when you add the "[" to the start and the "]" to the end

.

The fines info is interesting DB, any other tidbits from the vault? Makes me want to be cautious about using dusty oyster shells...

Maybe 'fines' are all the more reasons to wash gravel? But that doesn't explain how fish survive in muddy rivers. I washed gravel more because 1) I wanted to be able to see the fish, and 2) I didn't want grit in my pump and/or plumbing.

One of DTHawk's last posts on his system after all that fiasco:

Moving the grow bed into the sun made all the difference in the world. Everything is really growing and I am finally feeling good about the system and thinking of adding two more grow beds.


Hmmm.... some solutions are less complicated it seems to me.

Sometime back i remember suggesting more sun to DTHawk....

Also, sometime ago I cautioned Doug putting too many fish in at one time before his system got a chance to mature. I think I also cautioned against big water changes, which he ignored and did a 40% water change.

I guess I'm posting all this in the hopes that you folks will start to return to a simpler macro perspective vs. micromanaging isolated problems with your systems.

Peace Out

M.F. Whats up? Your reading a bit grumpy today. I was going to tease you about being a Tilapia pimp ....grin... but I'm not so sure that would go over too well.
I have thought about Doug's problems/system and of course everything is hind sight and we dont know the cause of his deaths, but the copper may indeed be a problem, painted or not. Starting out with such a wide varity of fish is quite a challenge and a pity in this case it did not work.
Speaking for myself.
But alas we all seem to jump in and hope the laws of Murphy will not apply to us. I go to my system everday and untill I open the door and see the water level good, the fish swimming, the plants growing, there is a sense of imposing dread in anticipation of something gone amiss.
You see? For me, unless I travel the road, even though I may have the best set of directions it has to be seen first hand that the left or right turn needs to be taken here or there.
AP can be pretty much a Plug and Play system but then I could not tinker.

In a side note M.F. I will not tell my Yellow Perch what you think of them but will instead feed them an extra helping of Tilapia.
Now get Happy!
...Grin....

MF has an excellent point that I might have been immediately successful copying successful methods. I have taken a series of risks. Deep water rather than flood and drain is a big one, species choices, very low flow, very low energy, rectangular concrete tanks, copper in fish water, small heat exchanger for water heating, and etc. I do not find his suggestions offensive and we all need to be able to express ideas without holding back to be polite or 'politically correct'.

When I had the tank poured by an expert, I asked him how to get piping thru the tank wall. He recommended copper pipe (not a fish expert). I did not know how I might end up needing to plumb the system, so I put many 1" and 0.75" copper pipes thru the tank wall. I did paint the copper heat exchanger, but the inside of each copper pipe thru the wall has fish tank water running thru it. I had better get a test for copper content in the water.

It is only if I can run the system low energy that I will be successful. Raising healthy Tilapia using too much energy (like heating) is not successful by my own standards. By next spring, I will have one year of experience with temperature of my tank water. I do not think Tilapia without heat will work and the energy to heat is unacceptable. Ten more catfish dead today. I only see one or two left. The bluegill are eating very vigorously and appear healthy.
Gotfish is successful with perch and I will try them again in spring. Live and learn. I would be much more concerned if I was an early homesteader whos family only eats when the crops and livestock are successful. For me, it is the journey and learning that is important.

I bought my fish from a company 250 miles away. It was necessarily all fish at once from a tanker truck. I did ammonia cycle my system from 6ppm to 0.0 before they arrived (it took 5 weeks). Adding them in small steps was not an option.

I will hang in there and I will keep reporting good and bad and I will keep reading and learning from the group on the forum and others.

Thanks for checking my numbers Janet. I will do a small scale check first. I suspect I should take it slow adding salt so I might as well add 10 pounds now and more later.

Rupert thanks for teaching me the linking method. It will come in handy. I was trying to refernce a single post which I guess is not possible. The page will do.

Doug, click on the little box next to the relevant post's time and day posted at the top of the post in question, copy that url and paste like this http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/vie ... 3567#63567

Even I didn't know that one Mon, thanks

Great Monya...just what I wanted to do. Thanks.