Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

That all makes good sense but in California (the third largest world economy) the wishes of a small AP farmer pale in comparison to say, the needs of a Sturgeon or Rice farmer. We aren't exactly hurting in the aquaculture/agriculture department, especially now that the UN has banned caviar from the Caspian Sea region. The Sturgeon farms in California are thriving and supplying much of the world at this time. Rice is no different. So an AP farmers needs are of no consequence to the economic development of this country/state economy. Besides the State does not handle economic development directly and delegates it to the local counties to procure thier own resources and manage employment/unemployment. In my county, rice and fruit farming drive county politics and the regs pertaining to them. Pesticides, flood irrigation, slash and burn practices.... it's all allowable at the detriment of the people and the environment. But Rice is king and money talks. They could care less about AP farming when Rice brings in a billion dollars. They would care only in a small rural county where AP can register on thier economic demographics. A regional battle against a serious state regulation (such as a ban on Medicinal Marijuana, or Tilapia in Northern California) is a matter that local government cares nothing about unless you have a million signatures, the backing of the media at the state level, or lots and lots of money to give to county coffers, and even then it will take local government enforcement of the regulation (or refusal to enforce) to garner attention. Honestly I'm not trying to rail, I just think fighting goverment is a waste of time. If they take my tanks and pumps, oh well, I'll grow something else. I think California is much different from other countries in many respects.

Sorry guys, another example of my ADD overriding my ability to review my posts before hitting the <submit> button. I don't want to rail anymore. I enjoy too many other things in life...so I will stop

Fighting Govt, never win. I'm sure it's been done but not for a small economic idea no. The trick is to find out who the guy is who actually makes decisions in your area, and culture him or his staff. If not him who is the guy who loves fish and can bend that guys ear....

Get to know him.

It's never what you know, it's who. This is a sad truth. Look at the art world....

We have a good idea yes but good ideas are so common theres so many bright people around. So why do some people emerge with their good ideas and others not. Persistance, AND getting to the right guy who can help you. Sometimes you need 50 right guys.

A million signatures, damn, that's too much footwork for one man.

Tell me more about the sturgeon farms.

How about a sturgeon Aquaponic setup. You do know the fish grow faster whenAP things are set up well. Plus removing all that filtration and heavy equipment. They'd listen to your ideas after that for sure!

I'd go - Sturgeon and Rice!

Then do what you want.

PS rail all you want, a vents good now and then better than stewing it.

Ok well many many years ago I attended college for the express purpose to get a AS degree in aquaculture. (granted back in those days catfish was the rage back then.)

The problem with the sturgeon idea is that the will reach sizes of 70lbs or greater, depending on the species. The females reach maturity at the 10 to 12 year range and then when only mate every 2 years.

So you would need something very close to a swimming pool and a crap load of patients. lol

Inregards to this I have always wondered about the farmers markets. I know they are not all year around( at least where I am ) but I would think that would be something to look into. The fact that AP folks could actually keep one open all year long.

just my 2 cents.
Shawn

Shawn, it's been awhile since we had this discussion. Not much has changed in regards to making AP a commercial food production operation, be it cottage or corporate sized industry. It takes much capital to start a large enough system producing enough food and fish to make viable a business. We've talked about ecotourism, farmer's market, consulting, publishing, etc. but for years something has held back the venture tide. Folks like Joel Malcom, Rebecca Nelson, John Pade, Paula Speraneo, James Rackocy (to name a few) have made thier exclusive living from aquaponics mostly from publishing, consulting, educating, and selling locally thier produce. I believe that is the most proven viable method so far. Big demonstration and research systems have come and gone and so far AP has not proven itself as a large scale alternative to traditional agriculture.

Where I live, at the base of the Sierra Nevada watershed, water is too cheaply provided to farmers who employ wasteful irrigation practices. I have lived here all my life and corporate farming has taken over this entire valley and secured its lobby power within the government to ensure water rights and authorized persticide use. Cottage industry and small farms cannot compete against a Wal Mart vegetable garden and lobby against such practices. I suppose when California become so heavily populated that every drop of water comes accoiuntable, then the AP experts will start reaping the benefits of thier own knowledge by consulting with the big farms on how to conserve water and use fish to fertilize the soil? Until then, it is a cottage industry as pointed out earlier.

I am sorry I did not pay close enough attention to the date. 8-(

No worries.... I like to talk about it still. Any ideas, thoughts? Aquaddict isn't around anymore to debate, so I need a new partner...lol.

And to think I was wondering where to posts this.

My brother gave me an article from the weekly times about Lennard and Watkins aquaponics operation at Kinglake.

Summary:

Blah, blah, blah, de blah, blah,
a simple system can be set up with 20,000L of water.
blah blah, dum de blah
Aquaponics has been developed in Victoria by Wilson
blah, blah, blather
Wilson is one of only three aquaponics specialists in the world
blah blah blah
built and insulated a new shed containing 5 tanks of 2000L each
blah blah
They then designed and built the hydroponic shed and planted herbs, which start out as seedlings, planted in soil, before being transplanted to hydroponics "table" that forms part of a deep-flow hydroponics system. The table is a polystyrene sheet the floats on a tray of water, through which water flows continuously. The table has 50mm wide holes in it, with a plant sitting in a netbasket in each, so that the roots,
blah blah blah
Wilson discovered that if the shed is kept in darkness, the fish don't attack each other. (did we knows?, I presume that they will feed when its dark I wonder why they wouldn't be aggressive? Presumably they could still find each other in the dark?)
blah
This is done by wood heater.... blah... investigating solar power as a future heating source.
blah there are two market segments plate sized fish of 600-700g take 9 to 10 months to produce, where as the bigger murray cod, weighing over a kilo take 12 months to reach a size suitable for filleting. The live fish are delivered directly to restaurants.
blah, blah
grow basil in the warmer months of the year and chervil, chives, coriander and parsley over winter.
They are marketing basil to a large pesto manufacturer and plan to market the other herbs directly throughrestaurants and wineries in the region, plus at local farmers markets.
blah, blah
The big danger is salt. The water has to be very low in salt, as this effects both fish and plants.
blah, blah, de blah, blah
He estimates that a basic system comprising one or two fish tanks with a 50m2 plastichouse for the herbs would cost $15,000 - $20,000 to set up Assuming you allready had a basic shed which would need to be insulated.

Warren and Wilson are planning on using the returns from the fish to cover all the operating costs, with plant sales as the profit. They estimate that a farmer could get a $20,000 return annually with the system, but this depends on successful marketing
blah, blah, blah
He is keen to see other people adopt aquaponics, and aims to act in a consultancy role.
blah, blah de blah.

I'm sure that is likely to annoy Lennard's fan base.

I guess my point was, like you, I dont think that just yet a AP system can be set up that will support my family or any ones unless like you said they go down other avenues.

However with that said I have thought that if a local group of APers, could have a small booth at a local farms market. It would get your system some advertisement and if you could keep the market essentially open all year that would be a even better advertisment.

I do not really have any goals for this "hobby" as of yet. But if I did that would be it. to see if I could take a couple Veggies to a local market every weekend and see if I could just get some folks talking about the process. After all word of mouth is your best advertisement.

I am always up for discussing things. Just lead me to a thread.

Shawn

Stuart how long ago was that article written?

Oh dear where have my referencing skills/habits gone.

June 2007

I think there are a few commercial enterprises up and running selling produce and making a living.. Laughing duck farm is one that I know of, and I'm sure that I've read of a few others in the aquaponics journal magazine.. I think the Speraneos were pretty close to making a living purely from their produce sales, but I don't know if Wilsons set up has proved financially viable as yet.

I always thought he had quoted the area needed as 90m2 ... like the other aquaponics system kit/prototype commented on earlier.... the one he was a consultant on.... "Ecoplan" (had to look it up)

Interesting to see that he appears to have revised the figure by nearly 50%...... costing given still sound remarkably similar to the other "Ecoplan" proposal though.

Wonder if that still involves the seperate use of "bio-filters"??

I got the impression from the article that it defintely wasn't. Might be braking even. However if it was really working well why are they not expanding. In his article in the Aquaponics journal he refers to a scaled plan. I don't remember the exact details but it was something along the lines of build a small system and once working scale it up by a factor of 10.

I think it is perfectly fair for Lennard to say he is the only Australian with a phd in Aquaponics but so many of his other comments seem to be "provocative" at the very least.

I took a lot of the content in that article as a subtle plug for his turn key $20,000 system with associated consultancy.

Have the felling Stuart, that the "turnkey" system probably doesn't include installation and setup costs and probably can't be installed without their help.... and probably doesn't include fish, plants plumbing etc...

Could be wrong though ....

I'm not even gunna touch the PHD thingo ....... .... groan....