Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hello,

I've been reading about aquaponics for some years now, and finally decided to start. The system will not be in a greenhouse (space reasons).

I live in central Europe, so it will be cold water aquaponics. The place for the system is 440m above sea, January coldest nights around -10 degrees C, and hottest July days around 35 deg C.
Yearly average is 10 deg C.

The Fish
I would love to have rainbow trout, but I might need to warm the water for at least 5 or six months (so the trouts will eat), and maybe cool the water for two to three months. Energy prices are growing here, so maybe that is not the best plan.

Maybe, carp would be better for the beginning. What do you think?

Insulation
I have a plan to insulate the system with 10cm polystyrene foam sheets, as well as having a sump tank underground. This should help to even out the heat and cold spikes.

What I already have
So far I have one 1000l IBC for FT, one IBC for sump. Aiming for Chift Pist system.

Grow Beds
I have two grow beds almost ready, 1.5 square meter each (45 cm deep). Planning to use expanded clay (keramzit) for grow beds. But since I will have to have good filtration anyway, maybe I should try one DWC growbed for salads. What do you think?
Also planning to make a roof from polycarbonate to make a little cold frame / green houses out of the grow beds.

Filtration
I have two blue barrels, one for radial flow filter filter and one for bio filter. I assume filtration will be needed due to not optimal water temperature, fish not eating much, or greens not growing much.


I was wondering if anyone had any tips before I get started on putting the stuff together.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Any good cold water systems you can point me at?

Thank you!

Hi, I think carp would be good to start with as they seem to be able to cope with conditions that will kill other fish. Also they will eat a greater variety of food. I feed mine lupins which I can get for free. They are not as nice to eat as trout and most other fish but can be made tasty. I think European chefs know how to do that well. If you start off with carp you can work your way to something else later. Redfin or European perch would also be worth a try but it is harder to get them to take pellets.

I agree with Don.

Carp are very tolerant of different conditions and temperatures. They often survive in lakes and ponds that freeze over, and would likely be a forgiving starter fish.

I've heard that some types are better eating than others.

I've cooked one common carp myself, in soup, and it was decent. Not my favorite, but edible. It seemed like it had a very low fat content. I'm used to catfish in soup, which adds a lot of fat and flavor to the soup. This might be different depending on what they eat.

I did like the texture a lot, flavor was okay. Carp have a lot of bones, little thin y shaped bones. (which might vary with different types?)

Now, frying might be the way to go......and sauce, some kind of sauce....

I saw a study online somewhere, a long time ago, and I think it took place in Australia, where it was a blind taste test with carp, and carp received the highest marks. It went on to say that it is all in the preparation, and I believe they removed a certain part of the fish so not to impart an off flavor.

As others have mentioned before, for climates with really cold winters, you might want to switch to RAS for the winter. It could potentially give you less to heat if you are heating, an you wouldn't have to worry about pipes freezing.

Or, if you can find a fast enough growing fish, and you are planning on eating them, you can potentially harvest them before the weather gets cold and shut the system down.

One thing you might want to check out is Frosty Fish, who i believe is a member here. He goes through great lengths to do ap in a cold winter climate. He has some innovative ideas. He has a website that I've seen from an internet search.

Hi again, and thank you all for great info.

Had to google RAS. I understand that is a way to go. Not much growing in winter here.

I am slowly researching the ways to cool and heat the system water cheaply. I have and old 12m deep well nearby, maybe I can steal some cold water for summer cooling.

Also thinking about using some solar pool heater for getting few more degrees to the water during string and autumn.

Wondering if anyone is using a heat exchanger, maybe something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Exchanger-Single ... 036&sr=8-9

Thank you!

Looking at Paha's climate on the wikipedia page I think you might be keep your temperatures cool enough for trout in the summer. Its a continental climate so maybe night time temperatures are cooler?

If your water volume is large and buried into the ground then the temperature is a lot more stable. And if you can somehow use the well to cool the water for the hottest periods of the year I think you'd be ok.

Its true that carp are more resilient to the higher temperatures and to water reduced water quality in general, and they would certainly be a safer optioon for a small system but they will hardly grow at low temperatures either.

@Danny: Yes, nights are cold there. I hope I will be able to make it with trout. Carps are are traditional Xmass main dish, and they are farmed here for 800 years. But I will take trout instead of carp any day
I attached hottest and coldes month temperatures, to get you better picture. Basically, my year round average is 8 C. June and July are the hottest months, with averages around 20 C and spikes touching 35 C.

Have the sump hole almost ready, and first grow bed is getting shape.

Tried to make a schema of what I am planning to do. I will bother great folks here more about piping and insulations soon.

Temperatures:



Schema:


Location:


Unfinished growbed


Sump Hole:

Wow! You are moving right along!!!

Eventually, I hope to hear more about your solar pyramid idea! I'm intrigued.

Also, the cooling coil from the well idea is interesting.

The grow bed is a clean design, and it looks like it offers you room for insulation later if you choose to go that route.

Some things might be easier to insulate before they are installed, just something to think about.

Keep up the good work! And keep updating!!

How is the carp usually prepared for christmas dinner there?

The solar pyramid is just cheap solar pool heater. Basically a coil of black hose in an acrylate dome to get a greenhouse effect. Pople say it can get you few degrees on sunny days, it is used to prolong the pool season here. Might be a difference between fish eating or not eating, so I want to try. Normally it is connected to the pool filtration pump. I am thinking about getting a small pump on a timer. Not sure how to fight the freezing. I guess that pumping relatively clean sump water might be OK. First google hit :
https://www.bosta.co.uk/all-products/po ... amid-14567.

For the well cooling, I am thinking about coil of silicon pipe right in the fish tank, serving as a heat exchanger. Need to check how strong pump I would need for that. Ideally, it can serve the well cooling in the summer and solar heating for spring and autumn. I checked the stainless steel heat exchangers, but they seem expensive and prone to clogging.

The very traditional carp recipe is with plum sauce. Hard to find a recipe in English. This comes close:
http://www.ukrainianclassickitchen.ca/i ... pic=7660.0
Many families do deep fried carp nowadays, which is gross.

Planning to insulate tanks and grow beds with 10cm Styrofoam. I see you insulated the IBC cage with Styrofoam as well. How does it work for you? Did you try to insulate the pipes as well?

Ok, so the pyramids come off the shelf. Cool design, I wonder if it is any more effective than a flat box?
I have seen lots of flat box DIY versions here.

I guess the bubble could give you maximum sun exposure as the sun changes position throughout the day.

The carp with plum sauce sounds interesting.

So for the deep fried carp, is the whole carp? I think it might be good if it was fried in smaller pieces.

Here, a lot of people like to deep fry whole turkeys. I haven't ever tried them this way though.

For the system with the insulated IBC, it does keep the IBC 2-4 degrees warmer than the sump most of the time, which is in the ground with no insulation.
The fish have been eating, no fuss.

In the other system that is in progress, the fish that are in the buried blue tank have gone off the feed 2 or 3 times this year, when the temps dropped. It is insulated with 50 mm foam. It is open to the air, so it cools more, like the other sump in the IBC system.

I haven't insulated the pipes, because our winter lows aren't really too cold.
We don't usually get below 7.2 C (45 degrees F), and recently, we haven't been getting much lower than 10 C (50 F). So far this year, I think we hit 13.8 C (57 F). I decided to insulate because I had a lot of free styrofoam, and then I got the thick blue stuff for a deal I couldn't pass up. So on the new system, I insulated the sump, the newer grow beds, and the fish tanks. I figured that it would help stabilize more. We do sometimes have extreme high temps (46.6 c this summer-116F) , though they are rare.

I have seen some ideas that I like though. I like the idea of using a box, and filling it with vermiculite, then covering the top to keep it in and dry. You could probably do this a lot of different ways. I don't remember where I saw this technique, but I think they were doing it in a greenhouse. The idea was to give a good cushion of vermiculite around the pipes.
You might have better or different resources locally.

I am imagining that cutting 50 mm foam and gluing it into a box that surrounds your pipes could work too. It would also depend on your layout of your plumbing.

Here, they sell foam that wraps around pipes. Something like this might work, with duct tape or similar wrapped around the foam ( I don't think this foam is UV stable).

Hi,

Thank you Will for the insulation tips! I guess I will do a box for most of the pipes. I am also trying to plan the system as compact as I can, so I can easily make a box for FT and for filters from plywood and styrofoam.

It is too cold to comfortably work outside here, so I did some reading. Googled about pipes, flow and pumps. A lot of info around! Here is my summary so far, what you think?

Sizing of the system
I have one 1000L IBC for FT. I want to expand this to 2 FT IBCs next year if all goes well, decided to start smaller.
I would like to try the CHOP2 system, cause I will have grow beds on uneven ground, but will put effort into insulating stuff. I hope that CHOP2 will give me a bit of leaveway, so I will not need to do perfect leveling of the system.

FT to GB Ratio
So far I have 2 grow beds almost ready, total grow area 3 square meters, 45cm deep (but will probably do only 30cm of expanded clay). That will be 1:1 FT to grow bed ratio, hope it will be OK. Aiming for media beds fith expanded clay.

Amount of Water
The FT will be about 900l, grow beds with no media with 30cm depth is about 900l as well. With the media taking half, it is 500l from grow beds. Half of the sump filled with water will be about 400l. RFF maybe 150L, bio filter bit less. Total system water amount is 1800l. Total amount of system water is maybe 2000 L.

The Pump and Flow
I would like to get the system as energy efficient as possible, but I will have sump in the ground for thermal stability. Guess trout will like to get water moving all the time, so pump always on. The head will be about 2.5 meters. It seems that there are pumps available with variable flow. I like that, cause that will allow me to easily experiment with water exchange speed and not waste energy for oversized pump. Aiming for trout and CHOP2 system, I think I should have some reserve in the flow. The AquaForte or AquaMax pumps below have both flow about 4000 l / 5000 l per hour with 2.5m head, but can be regulated down to about 35% of max power. That would be 1400 l/h, so maybe 1000 l/h for the fish tank branch of the CHOP2.Do you think that is too much flow? The AquaForte power consumption is 35 to 85W.
So far I liked
AquaForte DM-10000 S Vario
https://koicarp.co.uk/Ecomax-Pond-Pumps/Aquaforte-DM-Vario-Pond-Pump-p-2534.html
Oase AquaMax Eco Classic 1200
https://www.amazon.com/OASE-706759403474-Aquamax-Classic-Waterfall/dp/B00MBVAR2C

Pipe Sizes
I tried to draw a schema for all the pipes. It would be great to have just two sizes of all the pipes. One and two inch seems feasible, but please, tell me what you think

SLO Pipe size (4m)
Looks like most people are fine with 50mm SLO for IBC. Hope it will be OK.

Filter pipes (7m), Water Level
Maybe filter pipes can be 50mm as well. Should be big enough to not block easily, and small enough to get some water speed for flushing the dirt. Higher speeds should also keep it not freezing.Those pipes also include emergency overflow for FT, RFF anf bio filter. I am not totally sure if I can connect the emergency pipes just about the water level as drawn. Assuming that water level of FT will achieve equilibrium with RFF and Bio Filter. I tried to push the water level of the FT about 0.3m above the grow bed top, to have a chance to use gravity from FT to GB if I find CHOP2 not working for me.

Pump to FT pipe size (4m)
SInce I will split the pump flow to FT and GB, I hope 25mm pipe will be fine for the clean water from sump to fish tank and grow beds. But maybe that is too narrow? What do you think?

Pump to GB pipe size (6m)
Since I will split the pump flow to FT and GB, I hope 25mm pipe will be fine for the clean water from sump to fish tank and grow beds. But maybe that is too narrow? What do you think?

Siphon and siphon to drain size (1m)
I like the idea of U siphon, cause it has no moving parts. There is too much info about siphons, really. Do you have some idea what type of siphon would be most reliable for my system? Anyway, 25mm siphon should be enough to empty the bed I hope. Then widening it to 50mm pipe from siphon bottom to the drain.

Drain from GB to Sump (3m)
I am not sure if it is needed, but some people like to have this pipe big. Should I make it 75mm? Or maybe 50mm would be enough?

Thank you all, and sorry for the long post.

Wow, you can immediately see that you are very responsible in what you do! This is admirable. Although I will not help you in this matter, I wish you all the best!

Sizing:
I have only used a CHOP style so far... I have no experience with CHOP 2. How much difference in grow bed levels will you have?
It might not be enough of a difference to warrant using CHOP 2 design. But maybe someone who knows more about this will be able to help. I think some people don't like them because of dirty water going back to the fish?

Ratio: This sounds like a great ratio to start. You can always expand as needed. Trout seem to be heavy feeders, and so they will produce a lot of waste, so stock appropriately. Or maybe add some other solids removal (RFF or similar). If going with the CHOP 2, maybe between the tank and the sump?

Flow:
So it looks like you would be turning over the water 2x per hour on the lowest setting? I think it would work, possibly even help aerate the water more, and you could turn up the flow when you expand. Sounds good to me!

Pipe sizes:
Probably ok. I think the one inch supply line is fine. You might want to look into whether the 2 inch pipe will handle the flow when you expand the system and turn it up...

Siphon and siphon drain:
On one system I am using 50mm, and it works fine. It is a standard bell without snorkel. The stand pipe is 2 inches, the bell is 4 inches. It didn't work at first, and I tried some strange angles below the bed, and it finally worked. It worked for a while, and then would go constant flood for a while.....
I ended up switching out the odd angles under the GB, for a 90 degree, and it has been working fine. It is still 2 inch, but it is directly over the sump and doesn't travel far.

On the other, I believe it is using 1.5 inch, with a 3 inch bell, and 1.5 inch below. This one does have a snorkel and a floating cup that cuts off the flow/ breaks the siphon. It works well, unless the cup gets stuck, in which case it switches to constant flood.

I've always thought the alternatives looked interesting, but haven't had the chance to play with them. In particular, the FLOUT.

Drain from gb to sump:
I think people like these pipes to be big if they are sharing flow from multiple GB's since you will have all of them draining at some time or another, but 50mm is probably fine if the GB drain to the sump individually.

Good luck! Can't wait to see the progress.