Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hi all,

I've a indoor, 9 month old system, I can not find the answer to my problem. I explain you: Ammonia = 6.1ppm, PH varies between 6 and 6.5, Nitrite = 0.5ppm and Nitrate = 120ppm.

I've about 13 fish (goldfish and Koï), they are young, the average is 3 inches. I feed them 1 time a day, just the amount they eat in 5 minutes. My pump filters all the water once per hour and I have a filter, mechanic and biological in the tank, I have to clean my mechanical filter once every 2 weeks to keep the water clear. I have 100 gallon of water (400 liters) in my tank.

1 month ago I used water conditioner for my water changes. Now I have a water filtration system and the quality is much better, the PH remains stable, the water is clear.

Someone can help me?

That nitrate level shouldn't be a big problem.
Has ammonia always been that high or recently increased?

What's the source of your makeup water?

How are you measuring your parameters?

I highly recommend stop feeding until you figure this out.

Sounds like one of several things could be going on -
1. You don't have enough biological filtration
2. The water conditioner is causing a false reading
3. The test kit is bad.

I suspect from looking at your system that you don't have enough biofiltration. Whatever is going on you should cease feeding immediately and let the ammonia and nitrite levels come back down. The fish can go for several weeks without feeding and if you keep feeding them you might just be killing them with ammonia levels this high (Ammonia toxicity is related to water temp and pH). Salting to 1 ppt with potassium chloride or sodium chloride will help protect the fish from nitrite toxicity so you may want to do this as well. Strawberries won't like this level if you have any.

Post up your water temperature - here's the chart for ammonia toxicity - http://ibcofaquaponics.com/information/tables-and-charts/

-----------

Scott_dc beat me to it on the post but we're looking and thinking about the same things so answering his questions would help narrow things down.

Thanks scott_dc and scotty435. I appreciate your help and will answer both your questions here


"Has ammonia always been that high or recently increased?"

No, Ammonia used to go up to 3.0 and I would reduce or stop feeding completely as well as perform almost 30-40% percent water change if needed.
As for Nitrite it normally is very low and Nitrate fairly high.


"What's the source of your makeup water?"

It has always been tap water (city uses Chloramine). Up to a month ago, I was using tap water conditioner. Now, I'm only using a Kube water filtration system (http://www.kubewater.com/the-kube.aspx) to purify the water.


"How are you measuring your parameters?"

I use Nutrafin tests in drops.


"You don't have enough biological filtration"

The filter at the bottom of the tank is composed of a 2.5gal bucket filled with bio balls with a white mechanical filter pad on top/input to catch large debris.

One concern I have is that there may not be enough water movement/shuffling within the bio balls and my filter system may require an additional air pump within.

Also, the bio balls are quite packed within the bucket and have no room to move. I'm considering using a bigger bucket to allow for movement within but at the same time I don't want to reduce the room for the fish.

The white mechanical filter pad is placed at the input of the bucket... I think it should instead be used at the output but when I had it setup like that before it used to constantly plug up and was greatly straining my water pump and it couldn't move enough gph.

All the planters are filled with clay pebbles (about 75L of them) that act as biofilter in itself.

Do you think I should change anything in my filtration system?


"The water conditioner is causing a false reading"

I've stopped using it a month ago and gradually changed the water since so this should not affect the readings.


"The test kit is bad."

I've considered this and tried different brands of drops and strips and see similar results.



My latest experiment: 3 days ago I added a bunch of 2-inch high wheat germ sprouts (I had started those outside the system) on Kenaf fiber sheets on top of the water tank's net. I did this to use up more of the Nitrate and help lower it. At the same time, I stopped feeding the fish (although they did snatch quite a bit of the wheat germ for themselves). Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate levels are still what they were (6, 0.5, 120).


Thanks.

Are you aerating the bucket with the bioballs?

No, my air pump is directly in the tank.

Chloramines are not easily filtered. It's possible (likely) your water filter would not effectively remove chloramines.

Also, I'm not sure if it's the root of your problem but ammonia is a breakdown product of chloramine. It's possible that your water filter is decomposing the chloramine and leaving your makeup water with a couple ppm of ammonia. It's possible that some of the ammonia you're seeing is from the makeup water.

I would suggest measuring the parameters for your makeup water immediately after it comes out of the tap/filter and some time later (a day or two) so you understand what you're adding to your system. You might also want to look into additives that remove chloramines. I use rainwater so I don't have experience with these.

The bacteria on the bioballs require oxygen for nitrification so if they aren't getting enough they won't be at their best. Adding some aeration to the biofilter might help and cleaning your solids filter more often might help as well. How is the water getting into the biofilter that's in the tank is it pumped in or is it just relying on the flow around the tank?

I will be testing my makeup water tomorrow...

The tank already has an air pump that provides a good amount of oxygen. A U-shape pipe picks up water from the bottom of the tank and brings it to the biofilter bucket through a bulkhead in the lid. Near the bottom of the bucket's side wall another bulkhead is connected to the pump that pulls the water from the bucket and pushes it out of tank to the planters.

Since the nitrate level is staying high, wouldn't that mean that the system is doing it's job of converting ammonia?

What I was suggesting is that it's doing it's job but not necessarily to the fullest of it's abilities. The bacteria may be able to use much more oxygen than you're giving them. It sounds like it's where the main flow goes out of the tank so it's probably getting a good amount of oxygen from your in tank aeration. It might do better with more and it might not

We are on day 2 of tap water testing (filtered), day 1: 0.1 ppm, day 2: 1.2 ppm. Plus, I realizing that the PH, on day 2 is over 8. Not a good news.

About rainwater ... since my system is in my dining room, I don't dare to take in this water for fear of bacteria. In addition, if I use this system, I live in Canada, with our long winters, how can I get water whenever I need it?

My other possibility is to leave the tap water, 48-72 hours ?, to rest to get rid of chloramine? But it takes a lot of space ... PH of tap water is between 8.4 and 8.8, how to solve this problem?

For my filter, I would take care of it when my water problem is solved.

Not terrible. Now you know what you're dealing with. Lowering ammonia by water change may not
be very effective. However, since your system pH is low and nitrate high, your system is processing ammonia. This should mean that if you simply stop feeding, your system ammonia should come down.

For makeup water in the future, I think small additions of less than 10% of your system volume to make up for evaporation would be ok. I do this when I run out of rainwater and I know my water has chloramines. If you want to add more at once, you may want to look at added filtration or additives to treat your tap water.

As a final suggestion, it is possible your filter's effectiveness would be increased if you run water though it slowly (a slow trickle).

+1 on the ammonia coming down if you just stop feeding and on the 10% without having to treat the water. Ron one of the moderators here used to do 10% additions with chloramines in the water being added - I think depending on the source level you could probably go higher.

Vitamin C will work on the chloramines, do a search, there was a recent post on the amount to use or you can use what I've suggested in the past which was a bit higher.

Considering the filter is inline with the main flow of the tank and isn't oxygenated separately, I'm not sure slowing the flow down is a good idea, it kind of depends so you can give it a try but proceed with caution .

Sorry for any confusion, I meant to slow flow through the tapwater filter for filtering your makeup water. I didn't mean to suggest slowing flow in any part of your system.

Thanks scott_dc, you had been clear. I read just about this yesterday, I'll test that option.

I did some research on the various filters. I currently have an activated carbon filter, which breaks chloramine into a part of chlorine and 2 parts of ammonia, chlorine is retained in the filter, so no trace in my water. According to my tests it is day 3, pH is always 8 and ammonia rest to 1.2ppm.

I added a test: I am on day 2 of the test of my tap water, without filter: The pH is also a 8 and the ammonia has 1.2ppm.

I could change my system for a more bulky and expensive, with Deionization filter and an Inverse Osmosis. But I consider that with my research and this discussion, that a rate of 1.2ppm, with a filter that works well, is acceptable. The most important thing is that the chlorine is removed from the water.

Thanks Scotty435: Vitamin C seems like a good option. I have to do some research and tests for that. I found this article about its effect on chlorine: https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/html/052 ... 31301.html . And one on chloramine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine. It is very interesting, I must discover its effect on ammonia ... Has anyone ever done this research?

For my filter, I would like to enlarge it and move it outside the tank (including an air pump in it) or enlarge my grow bed. But I hesitate, I must consider that it takes a lot of space in our dining room.

More grow bed with expend clay has the advantage of acting as a biological filter and lowering nitrates. If my deduction is good, having 1-2 times the volume of grow bed compared to my tank, I could do without external biological filter. Literally it sounds great, but in practice it may be just the opposite, you have experienced this option?