Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hi guys, happy new year everyone!
So I finally managed to set up my IBC AP system here in Western Australia
I have set up on a float and drain with a homemade Bell Siphon.

My specs are:
IBC Fish tank fits 750 L (with spare ~10cm of dry area to the edge of tank)
Grow bed fits 230L of growing media (being 200L wet growing media and a layer of about 1 inch dried on top)
Used Nutrified HydroClay Premium (pic below)
Aquapro HP1100 pump (actual flow capacity to be tested)
Tap water used to fill the tank (PH 7.4 as read on 2-1-16 )



My first reading after filling the tanks (and not running the pump for 3 days) are:

PH: 8.2 and using another test ~8 (with seems a bit too alcalyne considering my tap water is 7.4 atm)
NH3 - 0.25 ppm (with is curious because I haven't added anything to the system yet other than water and Expanded clay)
NO2 - 0 ppm
NO3 - 0 ppm

Float and drain are running on ratio:
Filling time: 4:55 min
Draining time: 7 min

Any toughs on the specs above?
I'm a bit concerned on the PH level but will wait a few more days to see if it changes without adding anything The float and drain ratio is ok?

Some issues:

- After filling the tank and leaving to gas off for 3 days (with system pump NOT running) some white spots appeared top of my GB as seen below, It seems to be salt (as I tasted) or a salty mineral, have anyone seem it before? Any thoughts?
I assume it is from the scheme water here in WA or from the expanded clay used? Could also be residue from my IBC.
I have hand picked the whiter pelots and washed it to try to get read of this salty thing, then returned them to GB.



- About PH being around 8, is it normal on the first days? (My tap water used has a PH of 7.4) I read somewhere that it stabilises after a few days and if add a chemical to lower it it can spike somewhere in the future...
Any thoughts or tips on that?

- And finally, I have a tub with Duckweed growing for about 2 months I add chicken manure to promote Amonia, I tought to add some of that water to my AP system to give a start boost on the bacteria but also am scared to contaminate the water being that I add chicken poo to it...

The Duckweed tub water readings as of 2-1-17 are:
PH 7.4 in on test and 7.6 in another
NH3 - 1 ppm
NO2 - 5 ppm
NO3 - 2 ppm
So the bacteria is defnetly present in this water since I'm getting some NO2 and NO3 traces... Should I add some of this water to my AP?
Any thoughts? Tips?

Thanks a lot

welcome to the forum.

you should settle the system with everything running.
>> float and drain
you mean flood and drain ?

the salt is most likely minerals from the water.
Excessive salt can indicate that your water level is too high and excessive water loss
1" is probably not enough - you want 5-7mm (2") below the media.

just use a watering can to water it back in.

often people NOR can have a high mineral load anyway (GH and kH)
many NOR have pH 8 etc from tap and it does tend to stay high.


Aquapro HP1100 pump will be a bit small but will probably just do the job.
Have used 1350 before but prefer larger size myself (2000-3000).
The main thing will be to make sure you are getting enough aeration in the fish tank from the water return.

not familiar with that brand of expanded clay so can't comment.
However all clay etc (and all other media) should be well flushed before using.


>> I'm a bit concerned on the PH level but will wait a few more days to see if it changes without adding anything

don't play around with pH - pH 7-8 is a great place to be, particularly when starting out.
You have to be patient - unnecessarily playing with a system all the time is a mistake many newbies make
messing around too much can create all sorts of long term issues and lead to dead fish.

pH creeping up can be an indication of mineral/carbonate concentration due to evaporation.
It is normal for new systems in your area to sit up a bit around 8, goes away after a few months / year unless there is something in the source water (top up water) or media.


>> that it stabilises after a few days

nothing happens quickly in an AP. It takes weeks not days (except things that you don't want to happen... ).
Similarly you may see traces of nitrates/nitrites but that does not mean your system is anywhere near cycled.
Always got to wait it out - no quick fixes.

your duckweed tub should be OK *unless* it has had an algal issue.
else just cycle from scratch.
(I would pour a small amount 600ml or so in the media bed not the fish tank)


>> Could also be residue from my IBC.

hopefully you scrubbed your IBC very very well.... you are going to eat stuff from it.


get some plants in. They will need to be fed with some type of feed for a while
> plain seasol and seasol powerfeed (when N needed) often most common mentioned around here for example
> some use Charlie Crap (but carefully...)
either will provide a start for your bacteria (which you want thriving in the media)

what are you fish plans....

>> NH3 - 0.25 ppm (with is curious because I haven't added anything to the system yet other than water and Expanded clay)

before someone says it or you read it .... water corp generally don't use chloramine in Perth water.
except at Mundaring Weir - https://www.watercorporation.com.au/~/m ... nation.pdf
also https://www.watercorporation.com.au/-/m ... tables.pdf


not sure why you have ammonia at that level either.....

didn't use any special brew from a snake oil salesperson or anything ??

HOWEVER... if your IBC was urea or similar that could explain it.

Thanks for the quick and useful reply Darren ( dlf_perth )

It's good you clarified that AP time are measured in weeks/months, I guess almost every newby dream on heaving their grow bed full and green asap but things don't just happen that way and better not push it right?

My IBC used to have car coolant in it.. not the best option I know but it was free and no way wife would allow me to spend $1000 + on this project.. so I'm taking the risk.. yes it was very well scrubbed and rinsed several times.

The EC was also rinsed twice until good clear water flowing and then added to grow bed (so not residues would stay in the GB bottom)

Honestly I got a bit scared to see a PH 8+ but I guess it was a good start after reading a bit more around the forum, unfortunately I was to desperate to rinse of the mineral of the pebbles... oh well.. you can always add stuff right?

The system pump wasn't running because I didn't have a power point close by, I have installed one today.. I guess that all water on GB that dried during 48h that generated such salt on top... If it was running wouldn't be so bad...

Fish plan - 10x Silver Perch! Was told each SP need about 20L of wet GM, so that's what I'm getting. I understand is too late in the year for baramundi and trout seem to be a dedicated fish to keep, so I'm going for the most tolerant one available in WA for the first year...

Today I purchased 3x Comet GF, added 2 in the IBC and 1x in the duckweed tub (as I started to see some mosquito larvae developing, so hope the little goldie will have a feast tonight.
The 2x Comets in the IBC is just to keep things looking real and for training purposes... I intend to feed them with small amounts of duckweed, they seem happy there so far, once I realise it's cycled will chase some SP.

I will transplant some lettuces and other plants that don't look so happy with this heat on my veggie garden, I figured I'm going to loose them anyway so I might try to save them on the AP etc...

Will add 50ml of seasol for the next 3 days then 10 ml every second day... (as recomended by a AP shop owner 250ml seasol p 1000 L to start and then 30-45ml every week during cycling...) But since I got this GF I will add in daily doses, any thoughts on this?

What else - I measured the pump flow today and I am getting:
~1090 L/h on GB
~138.5 L/h returned on FT
* results are not perfectly accurate but to have a good idea... I used a 1L jug and timed how long to get it full GB took 3.5 sec - so L = 1h / 3.5s or = 3600/3.5 = ~1090 L if that make sense. Water returned to FT took 26secs so L = 3600 / 26 = ~138.5
Providing I have 750L of water in my system, this get circulated trough the GB in less than an hour with this pump, the only problem I may face is oxygenation as you mentioned, for that I intent to add a Air pump with battery back up in case of pump failure. Still need to source one, any model suggestion are welcome.

About the flood and drain time / rate, does it seems nominal or something I have to try to amend?

Thanks a lot!

>> Honestly I got a bit scared to see a PH 8+ but I guess it was a good start after reading a bit more around the forum, unfortunately I was to desperate to rinse of the mineral of the pebbles... oh well.. you can always add stuff right?

that's fine. More case you don't have to. You aren't losing anything important.

keep in mind your water needs to be 5-7cm (2") below the media surface. Clay will wick anyway.
too shallow and you will just lose water in this heat.

>> Fish plan - 10x Silver Perch! Was told each SP need about 20L of wet GM, so that's what I'm getting. I understand is too late in the year for baramundi and trout seem to be a dedicated fish to keep, so I'm going for the most tolerant one available in WA for the first year...
>> The 2x Comets in the IBC is just to keep things looking real and for training purposes... I intend to feed them with small amounts of duckweed, they seem happy there so far, once I realise it's cycled will chase some SP.

sensible plan. 10 is a good place to start. You can go a few more but best to be conservative in a new system.
Your goldfish will be fine with them. Often getting the uncoloured goldfish works.

for GF probably need something in addition to the duckweed (which they will eat no problems).
suggest some low protein pellets.

you will need to add salt when (just before) you add SP. Not issue for the goldfish.

I will transplant some lettuces and other plants that don't look so happy with this heat on my veggie garden, I figured I'm going to loose them anyway so I might try to save them on the AP etc...

should be fine if you put them in the GB under shadecloth

Will add 50ml of seasol for the next 3 days then 10 ml every second day... (as recomended by a AP shop owner 250ml seasol p 1000 L to start and then 30-45ml every week during cycling...) But since I got this GF I will add in daily doses, any thoughts on this?

it is overkill and you need to use Seasol Powerfeed not plain seasol.
You need ammonia which you will get from the fish and urea in powerfeed.
normal seasol has very low levels of nitrogen (switch to this when/if you have ammonia/nitrites/nitrates in system).

As you have fish you just need to watering can enough powerfeed to keep the plants kicking over.
so every couple of days would be heaps. Making sure your ammonia levels stay relatively low.
You don't need to have a spike to cycle - the fish being there and the powerfeed will get you enough ammonia over a couple of weeks and 10 SP will be a good number to introduce without stressing the system much.

just water the powerfeed onto the veg & grow bed media - that is where the bacteria will establish.
If it was me I would pour some of the duckweed water on the media as well.
your risk of an algal bloom is pretty low if you have fish in the tank and don't use too much powerfeed.

>> About the flood and drain time / rate, does it seems nominal or something I have to try to amend?

doesn't really matter. If were me I would swap to timer and run 30mins-30mins without siphon.
But otherwise the siphon is fine. Up to you. Gets pretty hard to play with a siphon too much.
Slow it down and it doesn't fire etc. The siphon firing will give you aeration from a slow pump.

FWIW I don't run any air or any siphons. Prefer to keep the solids in the grow beds and the drain cycle refreshes the water anyway. I don't even bother dumping the full volume. Means don't need to run pump all the time. Would use less watts with a more powerful pump running 30-30 than needing a siphon and constant flow on a small pump. It is really up the the individual - no noticeable affect on how the veg grows...

air only really becomes an issue if your pump is not enough or you have a lot of fish.
Bigger issue really for things like trout.

Yep same but I got 10 x 12 cm SP so hopefully everything going to plan come May they will be eaten fish but that's the plan and 'they're our pets' as my wife and son would say ........ .. but yeah, doing Trout season this year is something I'd like to do or maybe a second tank is needed

Nice set up btw

Hi again guys,

So the system have been running for over a week now, mechanically it's working ok.. Having been doing readings every 24 or 36h...

PH stady at 8.2, Amonia 0.25 to 0.5 ppm - no NO2 and what looks like 5ppm NO3 (hard to tell colour difference)

Today I notice some slummy green-ich material building on the IBC walls (FT), there was some sediments left from the expanded clay even tough I cleand prety well, and whatever falls down the bottom but this material on the walls are making me concerned if it's algae, follow some pics...

I tried to cut corners and didnt follow recommendations to paint my IBC and now has heaps of lights going in... I can try to fix if by covering with some sort of material but didn't thing things would develop this fast...

Any recommendations? Does it look like algae start to develop? Should I be worried?

Thanks for any input

It's either algae or bio-slime or both. Just leave the bio-slime alone it's normal. For the algae you need to block the light from entering by either painting or wrapping the tank with something. It's also good to cover the top of the tank as well.

As Scotty says - you will have it all up the sides etc over time and can be darker green/almost black.

What you don't want is pea soup green water or strands of algae.

The other thing is excessive bacteria - but that tends to look like fluff balls that break up or a real gooey slime.
Mostly from too much left over food and/or poor circulation.

water looks clear - we can clearly see the fish and pump. So all good so far.
It will look like that on the sides soon.

Hello folks,
So my AP system is now about 3 month old.
I have 10 SP and 3 Comet gold fish of about 10cm living there happily.

I had some troubles with my bell syphon. Right when I set up the system, it worked alright but about a month ago or so I noticed the growbed was only filling about halfway until bell syphon open and drain it all... Since I removed the bell and have the growbed on constantly full.

Although it's not ideal, I thought to give it a go to give more room to bacteria to grow, it seem to work as my readings are now

PH = 8.2
Amonia = 0 or o.25? Hard to dif colour..
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 40 and climbing...

What I don't get is why my plants are looking so sad... They seem to not be consuming the Nitrate available as it is slowly climbing and climbing and plants a.re not growing!

Questions:
Have anybody experience a similar problem with bell syphon? Eg water only fill to half the height of snorkel and syphon opens and drains.

What can be happen that my plants are not growing? Lack of other nutrients? Or PH being steady 8.2 is blocking nutrient intake?

Any suggestions I'm open for some try... Follow some pics of my plants as of today.. on RHS are some rocket that were germinated from seed and they are about 6 week old... there's some mizuna, parsley and spinash that are surviving but compared to the same plants on my garden bed they look miserable... I thought aquaponics would give me much fast grow?

Thanks all

Looks like most of the plants are doing well except for one particular type. You have at least one thing going on and possibly two.

1. You have what looks to be leaf miner damage on some of the leaves in the foreground.
2. It looks like you might have the beginnings of a potassium deficiency. Either there is an actual deficiency or it's got something to do with the root system probably having to do with the transition - the roots may need time to adjust. I noticed that the new growth is coming in nice and dark which is good.

On the possible potassium deficiency - some plants work well as indicators because they show problems early and I think that's what you're seeing here.

Hi Joel, thanks you for pointing that out.
Possibly the transition affected these rocket plants but they didn't look happy while it was flood and drain either. I will work on someway to get my syphon working again and get it back to flood and drain, leaving full flooded was just a playing around to if things would get better.

Potassium deficiency, so I read a lot this morning and seems to be a quite common problem? Lots of articles and opinions around which as always generate confusion. What product/brand available in WA should I use to tackle it?

I like the idea to keep things simple and organic, but this one seems a must do to correct. After all if I don't get a decent lettuce soon enough I wont have more funds from wifey to expand my AP. LOL

I read ( https://university.upstartfarmers.com/b ... aquaponics) that systems with high PH (mine is around 8 - 8.2 ) should use Kelp Meal concentrate or potassium sulphate.
Obviously this Kelp Meal they point out is a brand sold in America.. for us in Au, what would be similar? I thing Seasol powerfeed is a similar product? Their factsheet point for 7% potassium, or plain Season 1.8% potassium on top of all other needed traces.. Would it be appropriate to spray Powerfeed on my AP plants? Any other better suggestion?

Now, this guy http://scottspridefarm.com/2014/08/potassium/ is pointing to avoid potassium sulphate as plants don't use as much sulphate and it could generate a sulphate oversupply? His suggestion is Potassium Nitrite. Any suggestion?

I also read that one should spray on the foliage (best at after sunset to avoid burning) rather than mix a potassium solution in the water as Calcium can block Potassium intake so by spraying you "jump" one step of absorption... any thoughts on that?

And finally, I added some crush limestone as recommended by the store when I added my silver perch in the system, to help harden the water and would be better for them? Since Limestone is basically Calcium, was it a smart thing to do?

Oh... I seem some people adding banana peel, dried and powdered into their growbed for potassium too.. sounds like a great idea (organic, free...) but also saw that it wouldn't give you much K anyway... Any thoughts?

Thanks again

Scotty here, Joel goes by Earthbound on the forum .

I'm over in Oregon USA. Seasol would help. I'd Spray apply it to the plants so that it doesn't affect the pH of the water. As an alternative you could spray apply Potassium Bicarbonate or Potassium Sulfate as well. The package hopefully will have instructions on the dose rate.

I'm not sure what form the nitrogen in Powerfeed is in so I'll let someone over in Australia help on the Powerfeed question. If the bottle says it can be spray applied directly to plants then it's probably OK but see what others say.



My understanding is that they do compete for uptake by plants. I think spraying is a good idea and it avoids pH problems of the system water as well, this is more important for iron though.



The perch probably like it but basically by adding the limestone you buffered your pH up to around 8.2. If you can remove it do so. Many people use some form of Calcium Carbonate (limestone, shells...) to raise the pH of their system. The nitrification process lowers the pH and the carbonate buffering system is one of the things that gets used to counteract the process. The correct way to add the limestone is to put it in a mesh bag so that you can remove it easily if the pH starts to climb too high. If you just mixed it into the media then no, it wasn't a good idea and depending on how much you added you'll may wait a really long time for the pH to come down or decide to try and pick out most of it - and you won't be the first or last to have to do this unfortunately.

Looks like a mixed bag on the banana peel... I had to look this over again and while adding dried organic banana peel would provide potassium you might be getting something else you don't want since I'm sure even organic bananas get sprayed with something. I haven't found I've needed this and once your pH comes down you won't either. You can usually adjust the pH up by alternating potassium bicarbonate and calcium carbonate OR potassium hydroxide and calcium hydroxide. If you're going to use dried organic banana peel I'd check into what gets sprayed on the organic bananas. I took a bit of a look and didn't see anything in levels that would concern me but I didn't check everything .