Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

@BullwinkleII

Yes, I do that if I have the file name. If I quote the poster, it is in the quote most of the time. Cost me 150 local bucks to replace it. The computer store knew exactly what happened to it when they opened it. Sometimes the bunker plebs let it go thru so they can get a copy. And sometime the YT gods are favorable to me and I don't sleep for a night.

One time I did a search on a R ed R ose and they fried my router within a few seconds. They used to send signals down the line and toast them or bounce them off line if I was a bad boy. they are getting better now, just get a 404 notice.

On the Ammonia filter: I am thinking about being able to use a second AP system to clean out the Ammonia and Nitrites by sending it my 30 liters of water change I do weekly. If it cleans it up well enough I can put it back in the tank again and save on filtered water. So I would like to use my family FT water if I could.

Is anyone getting crystal clear water back from their grow beds? With the numbers of ammonia and nitrite at zero?

My water is clear and almost odorless but I don't know about the numbers.

Sent from my LG-K120 using Tapatalk

I am hoping to be able to move the water back and forth to another AP system with just a sump. Tank that water and replace it with new FT water. move the tanked water back to the FT. Add a bit for evaporation and use.

No, this is NOT the way aquaponics works, unlike the "basic" explanation that is given by those who write reports and news stories, etc.

the water will contain the same amount of nutrients going in and out of the FT, etc.... or atleast extremely similar values, unless punmps are turned off for extended periods.

The entire reason for AP is to use the Ammonia and Nitrites of the fish. If the A & N returned to the tank on a regular basis then why do AP? Maybe 1 trip thru is not enough but eventually the plants should strip them out 100%. I would think the plants would take them up as food and not return them. Only if the plants were full and no need to eat then they might pass on them yet the bed itself should act as a bio-filter and take some out also if it is a mature bed.

I guess it might also be up to debater on some nutrients. I am only asking about ammonia and nitrites. The 2 fish killers. I only want to use the family FT water for the second AP system that is smaller. So I need to figure out what will happen to the water in that system. Would it take a week for the plants to suck out all of the ammonia and nitrites? And then I can recycle it back to the FT.

No, the plants will not strip them 100%.

I dont know how to explain it properly without typing out a 4 paragraph explanation.
basically the plants need a certain level of nutes to survive, a diluted mix will not be sufficient in essence, if you were to only give 2/2/2 to one plant, that will not be strong enough to grow if the plant needs 8/8/8... it doesnt matter that the total nutes used are the same, 8/8/8 in 1 litre of water is not the same to the plant as 2/2/2 in 4 litres of water, even though "its getting the same amount of nutrients"...

As fas as your second paragraph, yes, that is more how it works, i cant give you a time frame, that depends on nute levels and plant hunger (plant type), but basically yea, you move the water to the 2nd system and the plant will take time to remove the nutes.

in no way is it "dirty water gets pumped to plant bed, pure clean, nutrient free water leaves the plant bed"..... like the ignorants / scammers like to push..... as i said above, that is a misconception of the way it works that the media *frack* up on all the time.

Since all fertilizers are measured in percentages it is difficult for us to use these numbers. Most get diluted as much as 1/2 teaspoon per liter.

Should I take it that rather the water is 8-8-8 or 2-2-2, it is up to the particular plant on how much it eats. 2-2-2 in 4 liters would be the same as 2-2-2 in one liter. It is a percentage number. Even if I had 200ppm K in 10,000 liters, it would still measure 200ppm in 1 liter.

So maybe you need to write your 4 paragraphs because what you are trying to get over is still not clear. I would hope that the ammonia and nitrites got used in the second bed and would return without those 2 killers. If not why are people measuring zero values on Ammonia and Nitrite?

8-8-8 in ppm would measure N80,000-P80,000-K80,000 ????

I have no idea on how you got to this conclusion. The 8-8-8 would have 4 times the nutrients. 8-8-8 in 1 liter would still be 8-8-8 in 4 liters as a measurement of NPK. If I mixed 1/2 teaspoon of 8-8-8 into 1 litter of water and then 2-2-2 into 4 liters then the 2-2-2 would be only 1/16 the concentration level of 8-8-8

the plants dont use ammonia or nitrites.
the bacteria eat them.

dont get hung up on the example numbers i gave you...... they were there to illustrate a point and thats it...

OK, I figured I could leave a step or 2 out and all would understand. The bacteria should change the ammonia and nitrites to nitrates which is plant food and the fish don't die from nitrates. Depending on the size of the grow bed and plants growing this process should be fast or slow. I don't know on the amount of time yet. The entire system would need to cycle and then maintain some level with a good balance of fish to plants by adding or removing some.

What would you say happens to the ammonia and nitrites?

Like Yavimaya said those were just example numbers, but it sounds like that is an important concept for optimizing plant growth... Deuem, I think mathematically, that example was saying both 1 liter of water 8-8-8 and 4 liters of water 2-2-2 contain the same quantity of nutes. If the 8-8-8 nutes weigh 4 grams per 1 liter dose and the 2-2-2 nutes weigh 1 gram per 1 liter dose, 4 liters of 2-2-2 water has the same amount (different percentage, but same amount quantity-wise) of nutes as the 1 liter of 8-8-8.

So nute concentration is a plant factor for optimizing plant growth...

--
Sam

Thank you Nos, that is exactly what i meant.

Deuem, the bacteria feed on the ammonia and nitrites, each one "poos" out the next chemical in the chain.


far as your "Depending on the size of the grow bed and plants growing this process should be fast or slow." statement goes:

try to think of it this way, a certain amount of bacteria will convert a certain amount of ammonia / nitrite in a certain amount of time.
if you increase the rate of ammonia going in, then there must either be an increase in bacteria numbers to cope (if there is more food, they will breed more) or they will take longer to process that ammonia, if the increased amount just keep coming daily, then number will have to increase - and they naturally will.

There is a thing called "bioload", if you have 10 fish, then you have bacteria to handle 10 fish..... if you add another 10 fish, expect to see an ammonia spike until more bacteria grow and can handle the 20 fish.
slowing your pump to allow a longer retention time will not help this, maybe to a small degree it may, but bioload is the important factor.

As far as the amount of time, the concensus that i have seen in the past seems to be that the bacteria will process out all the ammonia in roughly 24 hours, if you have the correct "bioload" to handle the level of ammonia in the system.

Ok, so you mention that with the right load you think that the GB will process out all of the ammonia in 24 hours. I an AP system the ammonia should be pumped out daily but in an AP sump only system it only has to deal with what ever is in the water at the time of loading the sump. Unless you disagree I will take it that the nitrates follow the same path. (24hrs)

On an E&F that could mean as many as 144 passes. 24hrsx60m/10min cycle= 144 times thru the bed(s) Give or take timing. This is where I am hoping that if I move loaded FT water to that systems sump, it would strip out the Ammonia and Nitrites maybe 100% because there is not a new supply of them. Hopefully after a week I could move that water back to the FT. I would like that amount of water to be 90 liters if possible. (3, 30 liters jugs) WHY? Ok, I want to use a new water that I need to buy from my friend. It cost about 15 dollars for 20 liters. So doing water changes every week would start to get very expensive. 120 +liters a month or 90 bucks a month. The new water is fresh mineral water from a highly protected mountain well.

When I used our local well water it was much more resistant to color changes and orders and it kept clear for a very long time no matter how many fish or how much ammonia seemed to be in it.

I should be able to do the water transfers with the pumps I have and clear hose running to each other so the work load is just waiting. Even if this second GB is just for house plants and flowers it will be OK. This system will be outside so I don't want any fish out there to bake in the sun half of the day. So call it the Half AP/Half Hydroponics if you wish but it will all be fish water, just not a constant flow of new poo. If I find I need to do the switch twice a week, so be it.

Ammonia and nitrites will be CONVERTED 100%, there is no stripping of those chemicals to be done, after processing they result in nitrates, which then get used by the plants - the plants wont really strip 100% out (they can, people have systems running at 0 nitrates with healthy plants) in general, you must think of the nitrates as plant food, periods without food are periods where they can not "eat" and will slow on growth or plants may stress - obviously 1 day with no nutes is no big deal, but that is the principal.

When you say "water colour changes" what do you mean? do you mean the white haze that ammonia gives water or do you mean you test kit colours?

Do not think of needing "water changes" in general, this isnt aquaculture, you will need top up water whos amount will depend of temperature, humidity, size of exposed surface area, amount of plants, type of plants and transpiration rate of said plants.
you will likely need not even need 120l per month once you have both sytems full, however so waters dont mix, you will need another 120l tank to move water to and from when doing changes.
you only need to top up for evaporation, not throw any water away.