Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

When you stuff around with the DNA of something you really better know what you are doing if you want to actually improve anything. Time and time again they are finding that various varieties developed through GMO techniques don't perform as well as wild or selectively bred varieties.

Also the whole pro GMO body has built this massive straw man argument. Namely that "We NEED these GMO varieties to feed the world". That is such a furphy. Over 50% of world food production is thrown away. Completely wasted. World hunger due to insufficient production hasn't been an issue since the 80's. If these companies truly cared about the hungry they would be developing solutions to improve food storage, handling and distribution.

"Also the whole pro GMO body has built this massive straw man argument. Namely that "We NEED these GMO varieties to feed the world". That is such a furphy. Over 50% of world food production is thrown away. Completely wasted. World hunger due to insufficient production hasn't been an issue since the 80's. If these companies truly cared about the hungry they would be developing solutions to improve food storage, handling and distribution."

Stuart

That is also is a furphy; out of date, landfill and politics. If you wish to solve world hunger first sort out the assholes in that country that let it happen, then sort out how you can improve production rates and distribution within that country, and water usage.
Using a large bandaid (at large energy cost) isn't going to solve it.
You have not money even though food is available to buy it, you will starve.
And *frack* GMO companies (need a *frack* them smilie)
And Chris, if you want to learn something about GMO play somewhere else; and if I have forgotten if there is anyone else that wishes to play this game; go away.

Sorry; I occasionally try to be tolerant, this is not one of those times.

Don't be like that Sleepe.

There is nothing wrong with friendly discussion. If there wasn't merit behind GMO, farmers wouldn't pay more to use it. If it wasn't working like it should, farmers wouldn't use it, and they'd revert back to the normal strains of.

I think there is a lot of misinformation on both sides, and it's still an emotional topic, rather than a rational one, which any scientific advances should be.

Ehh, no, no, no and yes.

Masses of produce is wasted on farm because it doesn't meet "quality standards" which are mostly cosmetic. Masses of food is thrown out when it is "out of date" even though it is perfectly safe.

Your last point is the telling one but you can add economics to that as well. I don't see how that contradicts my point though. If the political or economic system is not working how do GMO crops help people get food they need to eat?


Exactly, all problems for which GMO foods do absolutely nothing.

I had thought I'd written about this but...


In June I was at the an agribusiness forum. At the forum where senior people from Elders, NAB, Com Bank, Bendigo Bank, State Minister for Agriculture, local government reps, agribussiness superannuation funds and agribusiness executives.

One guy speaking there was from Alkira Organics. Alkira Organics is a joint venture between a multigenerational farming family and an agribusiness investment fund. The fund had a customer that wanted a LOT of organic produce. The fund approached these guys and together they formed Alkira Organics to supply that customer.

The guy speaking from Alkira had some lovely corporate slides which he mostly ignored and spent most of his time talking about the "myths" of organic farming like needing less water, more productive, etc. and that they were actually true.

Needless to say they weren't growing any GMO crops.

Bodgy, that's a very interesting article. Touches on the 30-40% waste, the obesity west vs the starving east, the global warming and population issues. I know catfish will devour BSFL, but not sure about tilapia?

We recycle all our plastics, glass, paper, and green goods now. But, we still throw away our share of food/scraps. We used to have a pig, and that was our garbage disposal.

Colum, I don't quite understand the dangers of the GM plants contaminating other crops, but I'm trying to do a bit more research on it.

I think the thing that makes me the most apprehensive id the lack of transparency with the companies involved. Reminds me a lot of our government here.

Yavi, controlling the world population isn't quite that easy. I think the stats are the countries that are having the worst hunger issues are also the ones with the larger birth rates.

I was reading some scientific journals regarding fish production/RAS and came across the article about the GM feed option. If anyone is offended my reading an article, then don't read it. I see categories/threads that I don't agree with or care to comment on on a routine basis. I don't jump on and tell the author to stop posting or go somewhere else. Pretty rude in my book. If you have something to add, or links to view, by all means, I'm OPEN to discussion. If you just want to belittle me, then go take a long walk off a short pier.

Just to be difficult... I see nothing wrong with the concept of GMO. Take the genes from a watermelon and apply to grapes and have grape clusters that you need a frontend loader to pick a bunch. Cool beans them.

The issues as I see it are:
is the narrow testing and

From what I'm gathering, the concept isn't bad, it's the application and the unintended consequences. GM plants then can interbreed naturally and lead to altered strains. Also, I think in most cases the resulting virtues: insect tolerance, disease tolerance, better growth/yield, etc, are offset by other problems that may be worse then the one the GM plants were supposed to be protected against.

I'm still trying to get real scientific research to verify. It seems like you either get stuff from the GMO companies(directly or indirectly) or people who are the doomsday type that make claims that aren't back by much other then feelings and a few small studies that don't hold water.

You can read 50 articles on the Hawaiian papaya, with 25 saying it saved the industry, and 25 saying it's killing the industry. The same with the Golden Rice.

There has to be universities studying GM applications that are doing it for the right reasons. I don't believe it's all the "world conquest" gloom & doom that many make it out to be. But, there is a lot of evidence that shows a pattern of deceit involving the big guys. Not unlike most other large corporations and governments. Money is an easy way to make things corrupt.

I'd still like to believe there could be a place for the science behind it, but everybody has their opinion.

I can't claim any real.knowledge on the details, but I thought that GM was a pretty closed shop, with the big boys patenting the actual science, limiting what independents can get involved with...
..
.

"And Chris, if you want to learn something about GMO play somewhere else; and if I have forgotten if there is anyone else that wishes to play this game; go away."

I apologise for the above statement; it was unreasonable and intolerant and for that I am prepared to take a long walk.

Personally I am ambivalent to genetic research; although along with a few other research projects I believe it could be potentially dangerous to life (as we know it).
I am also against patenting living organisms (a personal belief)
I detest a number of companies (and personally dislike the charter under which all companies exist)
One group of companies I detest are the ones into GMO. They have no interest in helping humanity, only in their bottom line.
Energy was and still is, to an extent, a real problem. The up and coming is control over food (see just above).

I vaguely remember a thread on fish food produced from other than wild fish (it was over east) don't know how it went but it (as far as I remember) did not involve GMO.

The one that really got me pissed off was feeding the world.

I vaguely remember a thread on fish food produced from other than wild fish (it was over east) don't know how it went but it (as far as I remember) did not involve GMO.

Is this the one Sleepe ? viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21363&hilit=Landline


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[quote="Sleepe"]"And Chris, if you want to learn something about GMO play somewhere else; and if I have forgotten if there is anyone else that wishes to play this game; go away."

I apologise for the above statement; it was unreasonable and intolerant and for that I am prepared to take a long walk.

Sleepe, what a great recovery. too funny to stay mad at you.

The more I have learned about the GMO companies, the more concerned I've become. It seems the older I get, the more cynical and distrusting I become. It bothers me sometimes, since it is against my basic nature. But, after seeing so many deceitful and dishonest things, it's hard not to get that way. Especially, when it comes to government and large corporations. As the old saying goes: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Im glad to see you write that Chris, you should be proud, in my experience it is the other way around, young people protest and have concerns, as they grow older they grow more brainwashed and accepting, they then become the oppressors who think things should be the way they were trying to stop when young.

No I remember that one Ben. The other was earlier and was about to go into production or close to.
I am sorry I am vague on this but it was over east and since the chances of getting it over here were minimal I didn't pay much attention to the thread, Stuart might know.

We have had a number of threads about replacement for fish meal, usually based on plants and I would have thought that it would be more developed by now; its probably an economic thing rather than a non doable.
If you have to add something extra to the food isn't it possible to cultivate something eg brine shrimps; know nothing about this so just guessing.

That's hilarious Yav.