Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Ummmm right..... The couple in Bradenton? They were shot right...

Skeggly. 100% right on the society issue. Growing up, it was never an issue. We are not the same country we were back 20-30 years ago. Lack of morals, the loss of the family unit, loss of faith, lack of respect, and so many other factors that come into play.

We used to never lock our doors either. Then a friend had a home invasion. Barged in with guns, tied him, his wife, and child up. Then ransacked the house and threatened to rape his wife in front of him and his child. Thankfully, they got scared and ran off before they carried out that threat. This was in a pretty "good neighborhood". Thing change my freind. We are not the same quiet country area we were back in the 70's. Too many drugs, losers, and people with little to no regard for life. I'm glad that hasn't happened in OZ...I hope it never does.

Couple of comments

The political decision to cause us to hand in certain weapons as far as I am aware had no impact on crime levels. It certainly pissed me off having to hand in my little Brno. Crime is increasing in certain areas but its due to other reasons.
Coach you have the right to bear arms under your Constitution so if you wish to do so, do so. Do not let your government take that right away.
Skeg there are a few places in Armadale that I certainly would not go.

We have plenty of druggies, losers and people with little regard for life here in Australia, you don't have a monopoly in that department... But luckily here, they don't have guns....

Since NZ was mentioned I thought I'd point out that over there is is considered polite, when hunting with your semi auto rifle on public land, to use a suppressor ("silencer").
This is a loaded subject and personally I think it really isn't anyone's business what happens outside their sovereign borders.
One of my biggest annoyances before the confiscation (ironically called a 'buy-back') was everyone asking why you would need to own a machine gun and seemingly based their support on that thought. Despite the fact they had been illegal for civilians for half a century or so. But the masses heard the scary words and agreed with the Federal Government's over reach of power into State issues. They blackmailed states and territories.
Despite my vague agreement with our current laws, the way they came to be was a travesty.

The differences in social outcomes between Canada and the US shows pretty clearly its not just about Guns and their availability. As Honeybagder said Canada has gun controls but guns are still relatively available yet they don't seem to have the same problems as the US.

This is a debate that could rage on forever, depending where you are from.

Poppa, here in Australia, guns kill more people per gun than cars do per car. I can give the stats if you like, but you can work it out from the figures above, and the bureau of Stats. That is with the reduction in guns allowed into Australia. even though we have stricter controls, there are still 3,000,000 guns in Australia in civilian hands. Some would say that needs to be reduced, some would say it is a good balance as the hoops you need to go through prevent the nutters from getting their hands on them easily.

All I can say is Thankfully, we live in a country where my children do not have the choice to bring a gun to school. Nor do other parents' children who may not be as careful how they store their weapons, as they think they need to keep it under their pillow, or in the bedside table.

We do not seem to have the issues over here with the police, because (and this is my belief only), our police are not worried each time they pull someone over that they will (because they have the "right to" ) be carrying a gun. There are not that many unarmed shootings by police over here (even per capita)(from 1989 to 2011, there were 105 fatal shootings by police in Australia - total - not just unarmed shootings)

Also, tragic as it was about the shooting you mentioned coach, but how were these people killed?

The other day I read about the Mexican immigrant that shot someone after being deported several times. Now the US are screaming that they need to tighten immigration controls.

Missing the elephant in the room much?

2 different worlds. 2 different mindsets. Neither are really going to change no matter what we say.

The second amendment gives all Americans the right to keep and bear arms, but the Supreme court did rule that that right is not unlimited. it can be regulated. When the constitution was amended in 1791, there was no such thing as an Uzi or AK47, so why should these be unregulated?

Most Australians also have the right to bear arms if they can justify doing so. It is not a right that all individuals have, and I for one, am very thankful for that. Why do I need an AK47 in Melbourne, except to protect myself from the nutter in the next block with the Uzi?

Sorry, but I get quite heated about this.

I had a friend in primary school whose 4 year old brother was killed by his 6 year old brother who was playing with a loaded gun that was left lying around the house.

Futile, unnecessary, and preventable.

And very very sad.

Continuum, You bring up some valid point. You live on an island. We have over 8000 miles of border, and 95,000 miles of shoreline. The Immigration issue is a huge problem. We had the Cuban boatlift back in the late 70's and had a huge influx of some very bad people down in the south end of our state. Our crime rate skyrocketed...the same as it's doing now in areas along our Mexican border. So, while the "elephant in the room" may be the fact that guns kill people, it doesn't change the fact that we already have strict laws preventing "bad guys" from owning guns. In your country, you have stricter laws, yet you still have a criminal element that can and does own guns. So, as a law abiding citizen, you can't own a semi auto 9mm, but the guy at your door has one. Call the police, and hope they arrive before he breaks down the door. Your right about the "2 different worlds. 2 different mindsets. Neither are really going to change no matter what we say."

I understand the passion, and the tragedy with your classmate. Just like my friend getting held at gunpoint and wondering if the punks would rape and kill his wife while his kids and him were forced to watch. The parents who leave loaded weapons accessible to kids are idiots, and have never been taught proper gun safety. They are also prosecuted here. Education goes a long way. All the people I know who were brought up with weapons from an early age would never be that stupid. Unfortunately, you can't regulate stupidity. If that was the case, they could probably send 90% of our congress to prison for that offense.

Australians unless they are in specific occupations have no right to bear arms it is a privilege.

If the guy at your door knows you are armed , he might just kill everyone first then rob the house at his leisure. Then what? Legalize landmines so you can boobytrap your yard so any robbers get blown up before they reach your house? when does it end?

As someone said earlier, offense has the initiative.
Look at Chris Kyle the decorated sniper. Probably got shot while holding a gun.
If the most decorated US sniper was killed , what chance does the ordinary Joe Blow have?

An 18V cordless angle grinder will scare off the average Aussie break and enter enthusiast quick smart.

18V cordless grinder is the weapon of choice for many people breaking and entering...

Interesting conversation.

As a lifetime gun owner and a once professional shooter for many years I can tell you that it is difficult nowadays in Australia to legally own and retain most firearms even when you do your very best at wading through all the constant paperwork and red tape. I have many friends including myself that have had to hand ours in time and time again for various reasons over the years and it drove me nuts.

I agree with Sleeps comment that people dont have a right to bare arms in aus. Personally I think if our government put it in writing that we do have that right, it would be a scary place. Maybe thats where the problem starts in the USA.