Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

So this is my first aquaponics system, its been running for almost a month and i havent really seen any progress using the fresh water test kit.

Im just looking for anyone who might be able to point out somthing painfully obvious ive been doing wrong. Theres about 30 comet goldfish in the tank right now, quit a few are around two inches long and theres about 5-10 bigger ones at about 5-6 inches long. Is this enough fish to cycle a 1200l system or is that already a problem right of the back?

I feed them usually twice a day, just a small handfull of half crushed fish pellets

I had an algal bloom a week or so ago before i painted and added a lid to the fish tank but theres still some remnants of the algae and some cloudy areas and long strands.. theres also algae attaching to the roots of the chives. I havent seen any nitrites or nitrates and the ammonia/ammonium is always around 1-2 now.

the outflow from the sump pump to the fish tank was roughly 2 gallons per minute. the system just uses overflow pipes from the growbed and gravity feeds it to the sump which pumps to the fish tank. From there its gravity fed through the swirl filter and back into the growbeds

PH of the water is about 8.1, which if im correct is on the higher side..

I havent been doing water changes, just adding water when it evaporates/gets absorbed.

Theres two airstones in the fishtank and one in each growbed.

Just topped up the water yesterday so its at a chilly 64 F

Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated

WHOLE SYSTEM




BASIL GROWBED


CHIVE ROOTS WITH ALGAE


SUMP

Welcome to the forum

Because of the high pH, your system ammonia level is already in the toxic zone for the fish - http://ibcofaquaponics.com/information/tables-and-charts/

I would stop feeding the fish and wait for the ammonia levels to come down. If the system has cycled already you probably won't see any indication that nitrites are present because the conversion from nitrite to nitrate is very rapid. Algae are capable of utilizing the ammonia directly so it's tough to say for certain that the system is cycled even if the ammonia level goes down.

What are you using for a biofilter? I don't see any media beds or biofilter unless you're trying to do this using the DWC beds as the filter. You could put a media bed in after the swirl filter or add something like a net tank instead.

Is this the way the flow travels?
Fish tank > Swirl filter > DWC (grow beds) > Sump (pumped back to FT)

It looks like you're trying to grow basil - basil hates the cold, at 60 F it will start to go kaput, you're only 4 F higher than that for your water temp so don't expect much growth if this is basil. Another thing to keep in mind - because of the high pH you will need to add iron, either chelated (probably Fe-DTPA would be a good choice, added to hte system water or sprayed on) or something like maxicrop plus iron but applied by spraying on (which avoids the pH problems of the system water).

Cheers - looks like a good start, just got to work the bugs out

Hey thanks for replying so quickly . Im not seeing any nitrites or nitrates :/ just 1-2 ppm ammonia.

I dont have a great idea of the bio filter thing so i just have about 8, square foot clothes rolled out in the swirl filter. i was thinking about buying a big block of the filters they us in the pumps, (squishy plastic sponge material) but im not so sure what to do.

Im also really wondering, is 30 smallish comet goldfish enough to cycle this tank? Its roughly 1200-1500 litres i think.. also yeah Fish tank > Swirl filter > DWC (grow beds) > Sump (pumped back to FT) is correct

Slowly does it. One month, depending in where you are is not a long time for cycling. I am in melbourne and it has taken over 2 months for me to get nitrates(woo hoo!!). I am cycling with about 15- 20 Goldie's and it is going just fine. Make sure you salt to
1-2 ppm of pool salt so that when you do get nitrites, you get as few deaths as possible. I found my ph was over 8, so I added 1-2 ml of hydrochloride acid to the sump twice a day. It lowered the ph about .2 a day , but when it got to about 7.6, I started seeing nitrites. Could just be coincidence. I used a syringe to add the acid( make sue you write poison on it) just work out how much acid you need for your tank. Each one varies.

Best advice I ever got. Just be patient.


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Also, 2 Gallons per minute is 450L per hour. you should aim to turn over the water once per hour.

You have an ammonia reading so the answer to the question about whether 30 small fish is enough is ... Yes! Might actually wind up being too many if you keep them in there too long.

8 sq ft of clothes in the swirl filter probably isn't going to do the trick although something will undoubtedly be happening I'd have to guess . Probably some sort of aerated net tank after the swirl filter is the way to go, this will catch the suspended solids that the swirl filter doesn't get and will also help break the solids down into nutrients - cookie is doing some interesting things with this. Brushes would be another option - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13682.

I can't see the clothes ever getting enough aeration to get the job done but they might have enough good bacteria to use as a starter.

Hope this helps

So the pool salt and hydro chloride acid wont affect the fish negatively? And so basically i need another tank to help filter and break down solids and get more bio surface area? Also the cloth/ whatever bio surface i use needs to be aerated? And lastly why is turning over the water once an hour important, just to keep everything circulating better?

Thanks everyone for the help

Salt is good for the fish (in the right amount as it gives them a protective coating to help withstand various things. The acid is fine as long as you do not add too much too soon. Goldie's seem to be able to handle swings better than other fish. I did it very slowly and the only
death I had was before I added 1kg of salt into a 1000l system. Once I added the salt (to make it 1ppt), all the fish were happy and healthy. Make sure it is only salt with no additives.

As for the turnover, I will leave the explanation to others.


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Used correctly the sodium chloride (salt) and the hydrochloric acid (HCl) (aka muriatic acid) won't harm the fish.

How much HCl you add will depend on the buffering capacity of your system and this is different for everyone so we can't tell you how much acid it's going to take. For that reason it's safer to adjust the pH of the top up water rather than to adjust the system water directly. Here's a good way to do it - Each time you add top up water, adjust this to 6.0 to 6.5 using HCl and let stand several hours before adding to your system (sometimes the pH bounces back up and you'll need to readjust). This will lower the system pH gradually over time.

I believe Continuum meant ppt Not ppm. If you're not growing strawberries then 1 ppt of salt is what is typically used to treat for nitrites (1KG per 1000L or 1gm per L) - Strawberries are probably the only plants that would have troubles at this level and it's a good way to help the fish with stress as well.

Not certain on the size of the net tank, you might be able to get away with a 5 gallon bucket or two short term. The fish carrying capacity of the system is related to the amount of filtration you have. It's tough to tell you how much surface area is available for bacterial growth in a net tank because much of the surface area comes from solids that get hung up in the netting - someone probably has researched it and knows at least roughly but I have not seen this information

It's preferable that the surface be aerated because you're trying to get nitrates for the plants and nitrification is an aerobic process. An anaerobic filter will not give you nitrates and will eventually result in a nasty odor from the production of Hydrogen sulfide gas which is toxic to the fish. There are times when it's useful to run a filter anaerobically - usually when you want to lower the nitrates. You can release nitrogen gas by the anaerobic process so more nitrates aren't formed from ammonia.

Turning over the water once per hour is just a guideline that works well when used for the fish tank. We know it works which is why we recommend it. You can pump faster or slower and it may work but it's tough for us to know that it will work. Your system will turn over once every two hours which seems pretty slow, may not give you enough aeration and may cause more solids to settle in the fish tank where you don't want them. I think Joel aka EarthBound's original system was run with less flow than the recommended but still worked well so it can be done.

FYI - The recommendation for DWC beds which I've seen is to turn them over once every 1 to 4 hours (I believe I saw this in a paper by Ebeling and others so it's a reliable source).

Cheers

True Scotty,

I always find it hard to get my head around the ppt/ppm

This is my new bio filter, its just a few dozen plant flats stacked sideways, theres two aerator hoses inside... wondering if this will be useful at all? Im also posting a pick of some open cell pump filter type material... any suggestions on if/how i should put it into the sytem?

My dads partner kinda jumped the gun and ordered 2000 baby talipia. theyre all in the fishtank now and i moved the goldfish to another.. the ammonias now at 3ppm and temp is about 74.. Obviously all 2000 cant stay in the same tank as they grow so well be splitting them up soon.. but im assuming i need way more biological surface area to conver the ammonia..

Nitrites and nitrates still showing 0 but the basial has grown, exploded in roots and is a darker colour.. is it possible that theres just not enought bacteria converting the ammonia and its being absorbed by the plants thus showing 0 for nitrites/nitrates?

Kind of confused what to do next, pretty sure the ammonias at a toxic level but the fish still seem happy, ive heard tilapia are pretty hardy though.

Anyadvice on how to sort this out would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again guys

New bio filter



New Open cell foam material, how shouyld i incorporate it?



Outflow from swirl to bio


Outflowfrom tank to swirl

Yep you need a lot more area to convert the ammonia . Sounds like you're wanting to do the filter on the cheap and that's OK. Various types of netting material are probably your best bet. The swirl filter will be catching the settleable solids and the netting will catch at least some of the suspended solids. The solids trapped this way provide additional surface area for bacterial growth.

Until you get things setup right and get the ammonia levels down I wouldn't feed the fish or the ammonia will just keep going up - At least that's what I predict.

I think cookie uses old fish netting but orchard netting and other types of netting will work. There's a pic of his filter on this page - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=20661&start=645

The netting does need to be cleaned - I think he's doing his about twice a week but your frequency might be different