Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I think it is a good idea to definitely go smaller on the fish side (cause you really don't need THAT much fish to grow a HUGE amount of veggies.)

And other than raft bed aeration, the veggie side of things is generally far less power hungry for ongoing costs.

And if you add chickens in a mobile pen, you have something that can produce eggs and eat the veggie/fish scraps.

Definitely try to keep things a little smaller seeing as you work such long hours, you don't want to be spending hours every day doing farm chores in addition to the long work.

I really wish I had gotten to take Ryan's class. I know there are things I would be doing differently.

sounds like Ryan's seminar was quite fruitful "wadding up and throwing away the old plans"

Floridafishin, lol. Too much fish in your previous plans? Lol what kind of feed rate to grow space did you figure you would need with this new found knowledge? 12 grams feed per m2?

I will caution that you probably won't "really" be going commercial in your spare time when working another full time job unless some one else is dealing with the marketing, harvesting, cleaning up, replanting.
Those things usually don't quite fit around most real jobs unless you are working from home with a flexible schedule that can bend around produce deliveries and harvest/market days etc.

Swede,

Yeah that was the eye opener. Ryan's feed rates are lower than I thought. It tends to shrink plans. As I forgot to ask what can and can't be divulged. Out of respect for Ryan, I will refrain for now.

TCLynx,

Going commercial will allow me to actually sell our extra produce. To help pay back my initial investment. It will also allow me to flex with the market. As I am not as restricted to what fish I can grow. It looks like I will just have to learn to sleep less. Until such a time as I can quit working all the overtime that I currently have to. As for selling and market days I may have to swindle a family member or 2 into helping in that arena.

Brian,

It was indeed an eye opening experience. Wish you could have been there. It is was well worth the money to find the faults in my plans before I built it, and had to live with it.

No problem I just had a feeling it would be.. Paul Van Der Werf system needed only 12 grams..

To sell excess produce, you don't necessarily have to be "commercial"
Beware, if you want to sell fish or aquatic plants, you need the aquaculture certificate which costs $100 per year and they want to come inspect twice per year (that is if you are NOT growing any conditional species, I'm not sure if that costs more actually.) If you are NOT selling any aquatic species, and NOT bothering with conditional species, then you need not get the aquaculture certificate.

Going commercial to "allow" you to sell extra produce, well, first step is to be able to produce that extra consistently and then you have to market it and handle all the logistics. Being able to grow the extra produce as I often say is only 20% of the equation. Actually making any profit on selling it is the challenging part. I'm not saying impossible but definitely not as easy as so many people seem to think it is.

And I think one of the hardest parts about it is the idea that you can do it part time on a flexible schedule. Yes the actual work of the farm may not take up an 8 hour day or 40 hour week but if you want to keep a steady supply so as to retain regular customers, it is not very flexible. If you can't keep a steady supply available, customers tend to go elsewhere and then it can be hard to win them back.

Before this past winter, I had been more or less sporadically selling produce and I would gain some regular customers while I was at a certain market or something but then season would change or baby came along and my help flew back North etc and customers would drift away. I'm going to try hard this summer to at least keep a steady supply to a couple outlets but it could be hard with minimal help and a toddler to chase. Also, in summer heat here, harvest of most things needs to happen at dawn and then things still need to be chilled by some sort of refrigeration until transport.

I've also discovered that I will need to build a walk in cooler if I am to harvest enough to really make for much profit beyond just paying the running costs.

I'm not sure how much Ryan's workshop got into the business/logistics side of farming, not sure how he could spend much time on it seeing as it wasn't that long a course and there is so much to cover in JUST the design/engineering of a good aquaponics system, let alone the nutrient balancing, fish husbandry, horticulture, climate control and growing conditions as well as pest control, etc.

If you want to manage to do it part time, you probably really need to get a good list of friends, neighbors, family etc that want a regular weekly package of produce and they come by the farm to pick it up and you get the family member to handle that. Trying to send someone to a market may cost you more than you make at the market (need a vehicle, coolers, tables, canopy, probably two people to set up/tear down and man the booth for the market, so once you figure out what fuel and booth fee as well as wages for the people manning the booth, how much does the produce need to bring in at market in order to pay for all that plus the running costs of the farm, is there going to be anything left to provide any return on investment???) Chances are it will take some time at any new market to get a following, how long are you willing to pay more for the market than you bring in to see if the market is going to be worth while. Many markets are only really good seasonally and many of them you would be competing against the boxed shipped in produce that people are selling cheap. Some markets require that you get a business license not only for your own county/city but also for the city and county in which the market is located AND some even expect you to carry 1/2 to 1 million in liability insurance that also names the market as an insured party on your policy.

I've made some attempts at a few markets but so far it has NOT been worth my time. I could usually make enough to cover booth fee and gas but rarely enough to cover all other ongoing expenses and definitely not enough to pay myself or a helper for the time nor cover paying any return on investment. Part of my problem was the markets I went to but part of the considerations where 1, getting into the markets, 2 travel time, 3 ease of set up. I wasn't willing to go more than 20 miles nor have to be set up at 6 am and I wanted a location where I could use my trailer as the booth instead of having to haul everything (being pregnant at the time meant I wasn't lifting/hauling full giant coolers across a park along with a canopy and tables.)

Hopefully the new place will have some easy "outlets" for your produce. Those outlets might not make a lot of money but hopefully they can be enough to cover the running costs of electricity, feed, seed, packaging, and planting materials. If there are any small independent grocery stores/delis near by the location, become friends with them! Also, if there are other farms in the area with farm stands or CSAs or mailing lists, become friends with them, they may be an outlet for you as well since if you are growing different things, you might be able to work together to help fill out basket orders.
Which reminds me, I need to go harvest celery for the farm down the road.

TCLynx,

I am currently looking at a few decent untapped outlets in my area. Besides that I am in the middle between 2 decent sized citys. Both less than 20min away. Plus I may be able to grow some of the Asian greens and fruits, that are currently not for sale (at least fresh) here. That I have been asked to grow, by friends.

Best of luck to you floridafishin! I know I couldn't pull it off in my spare time much less full time. My exwifes parents gambled everything. Sold the house that they owned free and clear to buy a dollar store and new home with another mortgage. They had ran a restaurant years previously and figured it would be easy in comparison. No business plan to speak of. 12+ hour days and the only thing they could really make money on was check cashing. And that is a fairly high risk venture. Found out after the fact that they needed quite a hefty amount of collateral to open an account in which they could do the check cashing.

So, I think TC means well in warning you of some of the potential pitfalls in doing a commercial system. It's good you're thinking about the market for your goods. Just try not to over extend yourself financially or time wise. If you run yourself into the ground and get sick then the poo will hit the fan.

*edit* I'd comment on your system but it sounds as though you're back to the drawing board. Have fun. Planning it out is the fun part for me. I just wish I had a few acres to go wild on. Wait, it's probably a good thing that I don't

I've always posited to my daughter how cool it would be to become a marine biologist. What amazing options a future in that field a grad would have. Ryan is an inspiration for sure.

I started out building a fish pond; pretty simple right? Then I met you lot Y'all are inspiring

Zwiebel,

I have owned a few business in the past myself. Luckily I have not lost money on one yet. God willing that streak will continue to this venture. Honestly I was not considering going commercial until I went to Ryan's training workshop. I was originally just outlaying a bunch of cash for a high grade family garden. I have no doubt that TCLynx has a good heart and is trying to help me. As we have talked many times. Even If I don't make a mint at this venture. Just the tax benefits and write offs can be a large help. Such as business meetings and gas. Remember I am starting knowing that I was originally going to loose money. Just so my family has the health benefits. Any positive income to help balance out that loss is a good thing in my mind.

Sounds like you got the right attitude.

So how is the new plan coming along?

About doing it in my spare time. It is just something that must be done. You find another gear and work faster, in conjunction with sleeping less. Every year it gets harder to support a family on a single income. Something has to give. I would rather the burden rest on my shoulders than have my wife work and let someone else raise our kids. It all comes down to what are you willing to put up with to move your family in the right direction. Currently my 2yr olds favorite word is "Aquaponics". If you have been around kids that should tell you the intensity of my focus. On a side note I would love to be able to do just the farm one day. But with rising insurance costs, especially of self insured people. The reality is I will always have to hold a normal job.