Pumps - good ones and bad ones.

Stuart Chignell

All costs money. spend the dosh and get good gear and a lot of electricity it will work.

Don't buy the good gear and spend a lot of electricity for not much effect.

Yavimaya

hmmm no Lowara in the poll :wacko:

Yavimaya

joblow wrote:

Stuart Chignell wrote:

Short version....

I think you are wasting your time.

Longer version...

While the ice might melt very quickly in the FT it will still be doing as much as it can (ie not much :twisted:

). Having it melt slowly in the esky won't allow it to cool the FT water more than it other wise would.

If you were running the coils through a fridge or freezer then maybe, maybe (huge maybe) it might be worth doing. Essentially to cool the water you need a refrigerator or heat pump to pull energy (heat) out of the water. To lower 1000L by 1C takes 4183kJ. To lower 1000L 1C in one hour would require a 1.16kW fridge (which is not the same thing as its energy draw because its a heat pump).

Using a chiller (fridge with heat exchanger running through it) is more efficient than freezing water and throwing it into the FT but it is still going to take a lot of energy to remove the heat from your system.

Thanks for the reply Stuart.

I never thought it would be a miracle cure to the problem but an experiment before I went one step further, I have an old Engel running in the garage that I bought in 1980 and it will freeze water if needed and I was thinking of using it. There's also full size beer fridge in running in the garage and another smaller fridge in the pergola BBQ area so the old Engel is just the reserve in case I run out of cold beer :lol:

It has been running 24/7 since 1980 and has never missed a beat, I ran it trucks for over 20 years with a relay and it's own battery, it even flew in a RAAF C-130J Hercules up to Groote Eylandt in a truck for a month. It was turned off for both the flight up from Melbourne and the return flight and that's the only time long period of time it's been off since 1980. (6 hours each way)

Having a friend who is a fridge mechanic, i would say stay away from using fridges or freezers to chill AP systems, it will burn the motor out guaranteed. They are not meant to run for hours on end, they are like air compressors (they are compressors themselves), they need to turn off and cool down quite often - more off than on.

I would go for an air conditioner or a proper chiller, something that is designed to run 100% of its operation time.

Just a thought, because although you may not have unplugged it since 1980, it has not been running since 1980....

That looks like a nice solution urrazeb.

The best solution is still to insulate everything heavily, no matter what extras you throw at the system.

Sleepe

Yavimaya wrote:

hmmm no Lowara in the poll :wacko:

And I see we still have the infamous Gunfos on the list.

joblow

scotty435 wrote:

Maybe dig or drill a hole and run the loop through the ground to cool the water would be better, I haven't tried it but at depths 4 to 10 ft, temp remains 50 to 60 degrees F year round. Ice might get you through a very short heat spell but that's it. I'd hate to see that fridge get a hole through the top.

Scotty I'm not big on digging and on reading up on everyone's advice here on the forum I won't use the Engel I'm wanting too see who lasts the longest the Engel or myself and neither of us need to shorten our lives in anyway :lol:

Yavimaya wrote:

joblow wrote:

Stuart Chignell wrote:

Short version....

I think you are wasting your time.

Longer version...

While the ice might melt very quickly in the FT it will still be doing as much as it can (ie not much :twisted:

). Having it melt slowly in the esky won't allow it to cool the FT water more than it other wise would.

If you were running the coils through a fridge or freezer then maybe, maybe (huge maybe) it might be worth doing. Essentially to cool the water you need a refrigerator or heat pump to pull energy (heat) out of the water. To lower 1000L by 1C takes 4183kJ. To lower 1000L 1C in one hour would require a 1.16kW fridge (which is not the same thing as its energy draw because its a heat pump).

Using a chiller (fridge with heat exchanger running through it) is more efficient than freezing water and throwing it into the FT but it is still going to take a lot of energy to remove the heat from your system.

Thanks for the reply Stuart.

I never thought it would be a miracle cure to the problem but an experiment before I went one step further, I have an old Engel running in the garage that I bought in 1980 and it will freeze water if needed and I was thinking of using it. There's also full size beer fridge in running in the garage and another smaller fridge in the pergola BBQ area so the old Engel is just the reserve in case I run out of cold beer :lol:

It has been running 24/7 since 1980 and has never missed a beat, I ran it trucks for over 20 years with a relay and it's own battery, it even flew in a RAAF C-130J Hercules up to Groote Eylandt in a truck for a month. It was turned off for both the flight up from Melbourne and the return flight and that's the only time long period of time it's been off since 1980. (6 hours each way)

Having a friend who is a fridge mechanic, i would say stay away from using fridges or freezers to chill AP systems, it will burn the motor out guaranteed. They are not meant to run for hours on end, they are like air compressors (they are compressors themselves), they need to turn off and cool down quite often - more off than on.

I would go for an air conditioner or a proper chiller, something that is designed to run 100% of its operation time.

Just a thought, because although you may not have unplugged it since 1980, it has not been running since 1980....

That looks like a nice solution urrazeb.

The best solution is still to insulate everything heavily, no matter what extras you throw at the system.

Yavimaya thanks for the sound advice and I wont go down that track.

Urrazeb wrote:

Hi Joeblow,

What about setting up a cooling system using an old air con compressor?

Like this

Attachment:

cooler.jpg

Attachment:

cooler2.jpg

Urrazeb, WOW! that's some setup, I'll sit back and have a good hard look at what you've got there and re-think everything.

Gordon, the Engel freezes water very quickly although I've never frozen anything large, I remember when I first bought it took 2 days to work out the correct temperature setting to stop it from freezing everything. It was full of beer cans and it was 3 days before I got drink one :lol:

Thanks everyone for your advice

Food&Fish

Have tried them all pipes in freezer pipes in 6 ft deep trench[ worked for 1/2 hr then soil got hot ]
Cooling towers 8 ft high
They all work a bit but not worth the effort
Just my thoughts

joblow

Food&Fish wrote:

Have tried them all pipes in freezer pipes in 6 ft deep trench[ worked for 1/2 hr then soil got hot ]
Cooling towers 8 ft high
They all work a bit but not worth the effort
Just my thoughts

I'm hearing you and totally agree, I just get these little fads every now then and want too build something then I run it up the flagpole to see if there's any merit in what I'm thinking :lol:

I still remember your advice that "I'd be better off peeing in the FT" when I was looking at 600w heater to warm the water :lol:

Now if I could only take the FT up into the house with the air-conditioning I know I could lower the temperature but that's not going too happen.

Stuart Chignell

The pipes in the ground will work especially if you add a heat pump to the equationot but you are talking many many meters of trench.

All these ideas that purple bring up over and over again, they can alk work but you have to do them properly.

Wax is an excellent fuel to use to produce heat and light but you are not going to light and heat a dining room by just burning one candle.

Yavimaya

You could, ive set up multi wick candles in tin cans, they are like a camp fire. :smile:

Just kidding stu. dont hurt me.

The trench is by far the best idea, long term energy wise, it is also the hardest to setup and the most effort required. Best option though cos can be used for heating too, a general stabiliser.

Stuart Chignell

Yavimaya wrote:

You could, ive set up multi wick candles in tin cans, they are like a camp fire. :smile:

Yes but that would be more than one candle wouldn't it :naughty:

Yavimaya

lol does a candles definition go by the amount of wicks or the amount of total bodies?

Stuart Chignell

In my analogy I want invisaging a 44 gallon drum full of wax and wicks

Yavimaya

hehehehe wow. nah just a food can.

anyways, pumps.

Stuart Chignell

Dam m predictive text :upset:

That should be "was not"

Stuart Chignell

Having said that a 44 full of wax would heat a greenhouse for a while at least.

Might depend on how tall the flame was though.

Possibly not the best technology to choose.

Backyard Aquaponics A place to discuss aquaponics

Pumps - good ones and bad ones.

Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics