Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hey all!

So I've been just learning for the last 2 years about AP. I know a bit about having an aquarium and keeping the fish alive. I also know a little bit about growing.

Here a close friend of mine for the last 1.5 years has been slowing building up a commercial AP system here. Here is a link...
http://pureraysfarms.com/

So he is just at the point where he got 500k in additional financing to open up a couple more greenhouses so he will be able to get the profitable stage, and under his 'corporation', I will be looking at starting a new venture. I have my own bit of funding ready, probably to start at least $40k, and I can pretty much get up any sum I need to make it profitable.

Also for selling, I have a friend who has a grocery store that was bought out by these wealthy american businessmen, who have opened up a whole chain of grocery stores in Jerusalem. So basically, I can pitch them whatever it is that I will calculate is profitable and they will give me a good chance to provide it.

So between those two things, I have a really good opportunity here, and I'm sick and tired of computers and internet marketing which has been how I bring home food for the family..

With that said I'm hoping to get some ideas to help me think about what type of systems I should be looking at.

There are a lot of options out there... So right off the bat I'll say that my favourite fish is Trout/Salmon (but I know salmon is basically not realistic). Trout MAY be realistic depending on the setup I use. I need to get the water temp down enough and it could work out. Tilapia is boring and it gets too cold here a few days a year. My friends setup for example, has tilapia now, and just today I was at the farm and there were some dead ones floating from the unusual cold weather we had here in the last week. He is now going to be switching to carp.

So there are some things I must figure out myself, like the profitable vegetables according to the market, a bunch of variables you guys all know...

But what I am hoping to help figure out what will be the best system to use. My friend switched over to a rafting system which he says is working well for him. The thing I don't like about rafting is that it doesnt take advantage of any vertical space. But maybe my limited knowledge makes me think vertical spacing is somehow better for a commerical system?

A big issue is also the labour involved. What if I can create some type of automation that is not too expensive?

Also for the fish tanks, I can use the round 1000 gallon tanks or similar types, or I was thinking why don't people dig out a big deep area and line it, then use it as a fish holding area? I would think its the best option, also it can keep the temp. pretty stable?

MY dream is to have big phat salmon growing, and to use the salmon to make my own smoked salmon and sell it privately, but thats probably not going to happen now...

So I'm hoping I can figure out how to run a trout system. If a trout system, because it needs cooler water, I would have to focus on that as a main concern. Or I can cop-out and just use an easier breed...

The main thing I wanna figure out now is how to get the most effective system up. I don't mind raising more money now to build a better system that will have lower operating costs...

Also one AMAZING thing I saw from my friend.. He is using a lot of bio-mass leftovers to run a $10k gas generator that will provide all the electricity for the whole operation!

How amazing is that? So any help from the pros to start narrowing down my direction so I can launch this properly would be most appreciated!

Also I will probably be going all organic since my friends farm is doing it and he will help me get it running.

I'm going to sound negative, sorry for that, but going from running an aquarium at home, and growing the odd tomato - into a commercial aquaponic farm is a massive leap. There is so much more you need to learn, otherwise you'll be throwing money down the drain.

Take growing trout for example, you need to know before you even start if they'll survive your summers, if you go three months of the year in a commercial setup without bio-load, then you'll end up with slow growth, which you can't afford.

You need to know what system works best for you, given what you plan to sell, and species of plants you want to grow, and what species you can grow the best.

You need to know about bio security, what to do when a fish or two are flashing at the top of the tank - otherwise you'll end up with a tank of dead fish.

Then there is system design, coupling the fish and veg together/separate? Pipe size? Pump size? Flow rates? RDD? RFF? MT? MB? DWC? Air requirements? Feed rates?

And I'm not talking about the profitability of the system yet. I'd be surprised if your friends system is profitable at the current rates, it says on his website that he's got 11k holes he can grow from, but how much can each lettuce head be sold for? And saying your friend in the supermarket will buy it from you isn't a good business plan, what happens if he leaves, and the American business man says, "I want your lettuce for 50% less, I'll go elsewhere if you don't give it to me."

What happens to the lettuce that are damaged from bugs (and how will you deal with bugs), or just don't look good enough for sale.

I could tell you how I'd set up a large system, but you need to know these things already. Set up a large backyard system, and learn all about it, then try something bigger. Don't waste your money.

Smoked Salmon! Hmm My favorite! Especially with thinly sliced brown bread and butter. Black pepper and a squeeze of lemon juice.
So lets work backwards;
Commercial smoker with relevant health permits
Fresh salmon
Salt water inshore RAS system
Couple of years to get system running and iron out wrinkles
PhD in inshore salt water aquaculture with major in edible sea weed
Masters degree from say, Florida University USA
First degree from say University of Sterling Scotland
If I had your drive and ambition that is the road I would choose.
Other roads are available.
Choose wisely
Good luck

So your friend has just acquired the $500k extra financing needed to push him into profitable status. Not to mention the amount of money he has obviously already invested in the last 1 1/2yrs. So are you thinking that you can start from ground level with anything close to the 40k that you quoted. Less than 10% of what he needed. And hit the profitability point? Keeping in mind that he has a good head start on knowledge by now. So his losses should be far less than yours to begin with. I am with Colum. Start a decent sized system. Probably growing specialty plants. So you can still sell as you learn to make the learning curve less expensive. Check out Ryans back porch system and his Chatterson farms thread. It may help your knowledge base and give you a good start.

wow a lot of negative nancies here!

I am in the research phase and I'm looking for some experienced people to give me some help in the directions I need to look at.

I have ample experience in my friend who will be helping me with a lot of the areas I do not know, I will be building it literally next to his systems as we will be working together to penetrate the market.

It is very strange to see so many negative people all in one place. You guys just pick out specifics of what I wrote that you can bash and try to bash it.. LOL

I'm sorry that you guys feel life has been too harsh for you, and you have lost your spirit and are just jaded and negative to everyone around you but if you do have some knowledge on possible systems that can be successful, why not share it instead of just trying to discourage?

Sorry if we sound negative, but there is a lot of people who come on here asking for us to design their system that'll make them millions.

And there are a lot of people people who've lost masses of money getting into the hype.

If you want to know how I'd do it, look into separating the fish and plants into two separate systems, it'll allow for greater control over both. Then you can separate it further into different nutrient requirements for things like lettuce/tomatoes. Giving each plant exactly what they want.

That is what I was thinking actually.

I see AP right now as something people are so excited about in concept, but as a business its not exactly ideal.

First you have an entire world of the fish, and then you have the entire world of the plants. The two can be done by themselves, and still be very difficult. I think the major thing to consider is this:

Fishing was usually just taking fish out of the water, and trying to make profit... Now your trying to do everything and still make profit???

And farming... its incredibly more expensive to do aquaponics farming that traditional farming! You have a massive piece of land, just throw the seeds in, wait till they grow, and then harvest them, with only environmental issues as the thing you gotta worry about. Aquaponics gives you 1000 possible issues that can destroy your crop within 45 minutes.

So I'm thinking if you want to do anything combining the two well, you need to look at how to do each one profitably first. With fish, I am not sure about how profitable a fish farm and/or at what level it must be to be profitable to begin with. Secondly, with farming, I know 100% in Israel greenhouses are everywhere and they are how everyone grows vegetables. So I know a greenhouse by itself can be profitable.

Now the question is, at what level do I want to combine them? Do I want to have the fish just to give high quality natural nutrients to the plants? Hmmm is it really that beneficial? I read someone who said their fish got large, and nitrates shot up, which was gonna kill the fish, but the plant yields were insanely good! So I'm thinking about how to turn that into uber-plants. Since as we all know, the plants are where the real money comes in. The fish are more of just a color of paint in the room.

I'm thinking vertical very very dense, as automated as possible, with overstocking of fish I don't care about I just want very heavy nitrate levels.

Thats where I am at now. After I figure out the 'generalities' I'll start to research the specifics to make it happen.

Also remember in my case I have a partner who is already running a farm and he has all the experience and all the mistakes already, so this is a little different then the other guys we have all seen before trying their best and losing out in the end...

Welcome torahtrance, sounds like you have an exciting project planned.

please bear in mind this is a "Back Yard Aquaponics" site and while there are people with commercial systems they are only few.

People such as Ryan Chatterson, Paul from Earthangroup, Wilson Lennard etc are heavily involved with the design of commercial systems but at I assume a fair cost.

It is a giant leap to go from a backyard system with 10 or 20 fish to a giant profitable commercial system, and if you want to do successfully professional system design would be essential.

however I'm sure we would love to share your journey. good luck.

One of the bigger places that got gov funding went under because of this sort of thinking.

If you only want the fish for the nutrients, then just go hydroponic. It'll be cheaper, easier with less risks, and the nutrients can be matched exactly to what you want to grow.

Aquaculture can bring in a good chunk of money, be it selling ornamental to the aquariums (large goldfish for example), or a fish that draws a high per kg cost, like Murray Cod.

It makes it so that you only need to cover your overheads with the plants.

I'm going to be negative again, but automation isn't cheap, and the cost of you seeding the plants, moving them around/harvesting, is going to be less than the cost of buying expensive machinery.

But feel free to prove us wrong, and show lots of photos of the progress.

torahtrance,

I am sorry that you see our response and take them so negativly. We are just trying to point out certain obviously noticable, possible pitfalls in your plans. I can assure you that no one on this site wishes you to fail. Therefore starting this venture as reality based, and open eyed as you can be would consequently gain you the best chances of success. Sometimes a negative sounding statement is just constructive critisim.

By the way. I know it is very short notice. But if you could manage it. This training could be invaluable to you. Shalom

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/aquaponic- ... 537?nomo=1

BUMP!! Just wondering what is going on with this venture.

Pay the money upfront for a quality design, get a realistic, and attainable business plan, have a 6-12 month cash flow in savings, and be prepared to work 12-15 hours for the next few years. I believe with these things in place, you could be a success. Good luck!

I think I'm being followed