Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I would say IBC #1, but blue barrels given your reasons and something small to get started is pretty logical.
Lots of these on the Forum pages.

dont worry too much about the uniseals. If you use a simple drain system (timer flood-drain or constant flow and then manually drain every now and again) then you can get a fairly functional seal using standard PVC or poly screw thread attachments and a generous dose of suitable glue and silicone.

biggest issue for siphon is the sudden rush of water and its suction pressure.
FD and CF dont have these issues so your max flow is simply the pump rate.

most AP systems are not high pressure and your GB is only 200-300mm or so.

in a starter system (or any system really) you should not need any holes near the bottom of the drum or whatever FT using where pressure is highest.

+1 to Colum's warning about weight.

But as long as considered your response seems to have it under control.

Hi akinich

You could also make sure that your heavy items like fish tank and sump are placed above internal walls so as to give that extra support.

Hey can you please PM me , its not going through on my side!

I dont get why IBCs are widely used for growbeds , i still think the barrels are better . May be i'll realize after i build my first system . Lets see !

Plus can you tell me the difference between flood and drain and the siphon method?

Thanks

Actually I was meaning for a system as much as FT/GB (but better for both IMO).
Really just saying *when* you have a choice go the IBC or something similar/larger.

(I note you have your tub as FT as explained initially but if/when expand the size of FT can affect the ultimate size and stocking of fish.)

Nothing wrong though - lots of very good blue drum systems, even buckets.... as forum posts show can AP in pretty much anything.

main thing with drums is which way you cut them in half.
problem with drums on side is they are curved so you get varying depths and thus not so good in terms of efficient grow bed area or depth when you have limited area. For drums in half (2 tubs) - depth is better but circular.

1 IBC provides a good 700L FT plus 200L GB from one product using the IBC Aquaponics method.
I suspect in your area you would get 6 IBC system in there very easily - that is a lot of product.
You would not get that equivalent from drums without a lot more effort and materials.

the size of the IBC (1200x900) is actually very efficient. You put a single drain in middle and a PVC loop 100mm inside the perimeter* and you get very good nutrient flow, fairly equal watering and a size that you can easily reach into for the average person. 6 IBC pretty much equals 6m2 of grow area - a lot of bed. (* I prefer this to it being on the edge and get good growth either side pipe).

-----------------------------------

3 types of systems: (all shown to work)

(a) Constant Flood - pump always on, water level is set by some overflow pipe usually 5-8cm below surface.
flow rate stays constant. Negative - preferential flow paths develop and media is not regularly flushed or aerated.

(b) Siphon - same setup as constant flood except a siphon is placed over (or replaces) the discharge.
Pumps always flowing, then at critical depth the bed is drained by a large rapid discharge of water.
Deals with flush and aeration.

(c) Flood and drain - pump is on a timer, usually just a inexepensive one (pin type ideal). A small drain hole is placed either in the bed directly or low down in the overflow stand pipe. Water rises as the pump runs and reaches the depth defined by the overflow just like constant flood. But after a period (usually 20-30mins) the timer stops the pump. Water slowly drains out of the small hole flushing the system. Roots are unwetted but damp and thus aerated. The pump start again and fills up the GB. There is no need for a siphon. Can use low wattage pond pumps that may not like being run 24/7 and power consumption is less. If vertical the feed tube drains back to FT which can be good to dislodge particles etc (though has to be refilled when next starts - not a big deal but usually cited as a negative). Some people have the drain hole up a little from the bottom so that there is always water in case of prolonged power/pump failure etc.

Constant Flood and Flood and Drain do not generally need to be glued as there is very low flow pressure.
So easy to pull apart and modify etc. Both are very simple. Siphon takes a bit more effort to set up and keep working and there is a rush of water.

There are advocates for all 3 types and the BYAP team tested and showed that generally all 3 will grow reasonable crops. However most studies agree that at least some regular flushing and aeration of the root zone is desirable. So it then comes down to effort.

For a good flood and drain reference see the IBC of aquaponics manual and video
(link at top of page or from information/downloads on the main http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/ page).

Details of the BYAP study and description of the 3 types can be found there as well.
Or via thread.... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8621

also some good points at bottom page 1 on this thread viewtopic.php?p=416912#p416912
main point - CF versus F&D is simply whether the pump turns off or not.

Constant flood and siphon suit systems that need a pump turned on all the time.
Particularly advanced/expanded systems that incorporate other methods DWC / NFT etc.

guess that pretty much sums it up

Most significant advice for a starter system is KIS (Keep It Simple).....

thank you
This post did help me a lot ,ill post up a design soon , lemme know what you think

Here is a quick sketch of what im planning



The one above is the top view and the one below is the side view



Please excuse all the mistakes and the untidiness in the sketch , its close to 4 am here

The fish tank is a 1000 liter IBC . Water flows from it via SLO to a swirl filter , the swirl filter splits to 2 outputs.
These are used to supply two rows of half barrels. Im planning 4 media bed and 4 raft/ deep water culture. I may have 6 media beds and 2 rafts , still deciding.
So basically the sump tank is 2 barrels connected together at their lowest point with a pump in one of them.
The pump pumps water into the fish tank.

Am i missing anything?
Any suggestions or anything? For some reason i think im going wrong somewhere

I think you have everything in place in the sketch. But i think, the SLO will not be as fast as your pump, so your sump may get empty quickly, leaving the pump to run without water. Am facing this issue, thats how i say.

Experts in this forum can help, its definitely a good design. Dont worry about the sketch, we are not pro's, everyone agree that. as far as its gives us the idea of what you are doing, well and good.

Yea I thought of that, I'm building a water level sensor,if the water is below a certain level the motor will stop pumping.
Thanks man, I'm gonna start the build soon

Pictures are fine - very good schematic actually.

Looks fine to me, and balancing the pump versus return is issue as Sripisad notes.

Note also that the capacity of your sump must take all expected volume in event of pump failure / stoppage / maintenance / modification - happens quite a lot actually while you are playing. There is always a lot of residual water volume in the system.

really depends on how you set up your grow bed overflows to sump.

the other aspect of detail is your water delivery to balance volume & nutrients across the system.
You show a PVC line running down which is what I would do as well.

how will you do your GB drains - from the end of barrels or through the bottom ?

Yea, the sump tank is 400 litres and the fish tank is 1000 .
Any suggestions for the GB drains? I was planning on draining it through the bottom.
I did understand the second last paragraph.
Any tips on how to setup the system in a way which it can be expanded easily?

did or did not ?

"the other aspect of detail is your water delivery to balance volume & nutrients across the system."

basically as you have gravity feed into your GB's you will find that you will need to balance
how water flows to each GB. If you make all same hole you will find that some - either at beginning or end - will often get more than those in middle. You could use ball valves to each GB if they are not expensive,
else may need something.

draining through bottom is fine but with barrels even end draining is probably OK and have a flow through system with entry at one end and exit at other - will get some small growth variation.

are you allowing for a flush option ?
simple one is to just put a drain plug at bottom of ends and open them up every now and again.
thats all I do in my IBC flower-bed filter system [http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=23874] and is very simple.

My IBC and side AP systems currently all use flood and drain with GB's over FT's - so that keeps life simple.




OK, thought it might be just another barrel from figure - which was where I had query on volumes.
The net water volume is around 50% depth or so for media GB barrels and pretty much 100% for DWC's. DWC's less likely to be issue, but keep in mind you may need to flush your beds every now and again.



I suspect you are reaching the limits for that configuration. Your whole system rests on 1 pump.

Personally I would just go with a second independent system if/when you expand rather than try and have to much on one system. Maybe couple pipes between storages just for balance / emergency capacity.

My mistake, I didn't understand .Thanks for clearing it up.
I didn't go into specifics of the system yet. I am planning on using ball valves at every bed .
I'm sorry I'm a little slow but why would I need to flush my barrels?
And can you please tell me the exact difference between flood and drain and a siphon? At this point I'm really confused

to do with maximum water level and out flow from GB.

in a constant flow system pump does not stop, therefore beds do not empty.
this is constant flood [CF] because the bed is always flooded (full with water).
[ I guess that is what you will end up with at present perhaps. ]
Over time nutrients start to follow only a few pathways and you can get dead zones.
If water does not circulate you do not get aeration (oxygen to plant roots and bacteria).

A siphon is added to a CF system to cause it to 'unload' water while the pump is still running.
It uses hydraulic pressure that occurs (is triggered) at a specific water level.
The water drains the whole bed very quickly then the siphon breaks (stops).
The beds then fill up with new fresh water.

A flood and drain system has a water level overflow and a small hole somewhere lower in the system.
When the pump runs the water is at maxium depth like CF, but there is always a small trickle
coming out from the bottom, or near the bottom. True flood and drain then stops the pump for a period.
Thus all (or most) of the water flows out so the media is just damp - great conditions for some aerobic bacterial processes and root growth. Then the pump starts and the bed fills up again with new water.
This occurs on a cycle - eg. every 30mins or hour etc.

You can effect a hydrid CF with bottom drainage simply by having a small hole low in the bed so that some water is always being removed from the lower GB areas. Else in a CF you need to think about using your pipes to try and maximise removal of 'dead' water to keep circulation up.

siphons are OK but you need to have one in every GB, and in small GB's they can get clogged easily.
they take a some effort to make and keep running.