Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Did a search and saw that most of the corresponding posts were, "you should feed X, X food, and Y, Y food". Specifically this post. Anyhow, I didn't want to bump that old thread when I stumbled across this post from Jon Parr in another forum and he mentioned the following:



Jon is pretty much an expert in aquaponics and I trust this information should be valuable for those that are looking at reducing the associated costs for feeding Tilapia. Jon did mention what the drawbacks are for using this type of feed, but I feel they can be addressed with proper system mechanics.

Myself, I have looked into this further and have found a local supplier that produces organic rabbit feed. Here is the ingredient list:

Organic sun-dried alfalfa, organic wheat millrun, organic oats, organic sunflower seeds, organic peas, organic flaxseed, organic canola meal, monocalcium phosphate, diatomaceous earth, Redmond conditioner (clay), Redmond salt, organic kelp meal, Zeolite, limestone, hydrolyzed yeast & yeast extract, mineral & vitamin premix, organic garlic, organic thyme, organic anise oil, organic cinnamon, organic anise seed, organic rosemary oil, dried aspergillus niger fermentation product

Analysis: Crude protein min 17%, crude fat min 3.5%, crude fiber max 20.3%, ash max 12.2%

Looks to be quite promising as we are seeing sources for organic fish feed and fish feed in general climb in price. I am preparing to get up and running for this season by cultivating my broodstock. I hope to have hybrid all-male blues x niles fingerlings by the time the season warms up. Right now, I am itemizing all my costs. Hope a good discussion can start on this and change some conventional thinking; perhaps this will help kick our movement forward.

If this was an acceptable food for fish, fish food producers would be selling it. Everybody want to reduce fish meal in the feed, but maintaining the proper amino acid balance is crucial.

I used rabbit food for my talapia for quite some time especially when I was having problems with ammonia in water.. less protein means less ammonia as waste.. the only downside I saw was that due to lower protein levels the fish grew a bit slower... thats the only negative was with me..

Ps. MERRY CHRISTMAS

Here's some numbers on optimal amino acid profile for feed for tilapia and rabbits. You'll see that an ideal rabbit feed is deficient in Lysine, Phenylalanine, Tryptophan, and Threonine when used with Tilapia.

It'll work, but feed conversion efficiency will take a large (upwards of 50%) hit.


Lysine
Tilapia 1.43%
Rabbit 0.7
Arginine
Tilapia. 1.18
Rabbit 1.0
Histidine
Tilapia 0.48
Rabbit. 0.45
Leucine
Tilapia. .95
Rabbit .9
Phenylalanine
Tilapia 1.05
Rabbit .6
Methionine
Tilapia .75
Rabbit .55
Isoleucine
Tilapia .87
Rabbit .7
Valene
Tilapia 0.78
Rabbit .7
Tryptophan
Tilapia 0.28
Rabbit 0.15
Threonine
Tilapia 1.05
Rabbit. .5

Fish feed producers are interested in maximizing profits. As are commercial aquaculturists. The two go hand in hand. If the feed they sell doesn't make money for their customers, their customers won't buy it. I don't believe that profit is the goal for aquaponics. Sure, I would like to have a fish get as fat as possible in the shortest amount of time, but ultimately, what will that entail? I will be consuming this fish eventually. Why go through all this trouble if what fish I produce is no better than the what I can buy for few dollars at Walmart freeze packed? I knew there would be skeptics when I posted this. I won't bother change those minds; that's not possible.

I was able to call the local company that produces this rabbit feed and it is $20/50lb sack. It's non-GMO and organic. I will trust that the information that Jon stated about the completeness of rabbit food for Tilapia is correct. He did mention that he uses a 90% rabbit feed/10% Purina Aquamax 4000. I will check out the composition of Aquamax 4000 and see if that 10% can be supplemented or I may just use the same mix he uses.

First off, you know almost nothing about what the fish you are buying have actually been fed. Second, I would expect that most people here supplement the feed that is given to the fish with worms, insects, Black Soldier Fly Larvae and other items - Tilapia are easier to please than most. You also have more control of how the fish are raised and under what conditions. You're getting the plants as well so it's really not just about the fish. If it were just about the fish then it would be Aquaculture.

On to your question about the feed - Not having used the rabbit food I can't say if it will work but given that you know the risks and have prepared for them you could give it a try and see how it goes. Since quite a bit of regular fish food ends up as waste I would expect the fish to pull what they need from the fish food that they aren't getting from the rabbit food. In other words they probably don't need everything in the rabbit food if they can get it with the combination. If it doesn't work you can always feed the food to some BSFL or worms and then feed them to the fish or some chickens. There is little to loose by giving this a try.

I'm not sure what dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation product was used and this could be important. A strain of A Niger is used to produce protease enzymes for the breakdown of fish scales left from processing fish so there could be the potential for disease introduction if that's what was fermented or if A niger spores survive the process. A. niger is a common bread mold with black spores (obviously very common in the environment) - I don't know if it can cause any fish diseases itself but there are some Aspergillus species that can.

As far as the extra solids, either stock accordingly or add filtration.

Hope this helps

I know Jon parr. He's a good guy. I'm not sure how much he knows about fish nutrition. I've had a few lectures on the subject - I'm no expert but the professors were. And amino acid balance was talked about as being crucial.

Also, I'm pretty sure Jon doesn't raise tilapia...

That said - if you want to use rabbit feed ask the supplier if they can tell you the amount of cinnamon oil in it. At very low levels cinnamon oil is great for fish, but above that mortalities increase rapidly. I won't have access to that chart for a few days since I'm on vacation, but I'd be glad to look it up.

Jon is starting up a commercial aquaponics farm, as such I am sure he needs to be operating within legal boundaries set in Northern California. I am sure too that he no longer raises tilapia for profit. But I have bought a number of Tilapia from an employee of his in San Jose, and have reached out to him in the past to order fingerlings. I am sure somewhere he is keeping a personal strain of Tilapia and Sacramento Perch for himself. Also, in that post, he clearly says he feeds his "Tilapia" rabbit food.

I am not asking any questions here. I am simply putting this information out for those that are arriving at the same conclusions that I am arriving at. if the goal is to produce a sustainable healthy source of food, then it is counter intuitive to leverage the commercial feeds that are formulated for catfish. This is something I will definitely be doing. I am interested in raising quality fish for personal healthy consumption and if that means slower growth rate, then so be it.

Are you talking about something besides Viridis? Jon has been gone from viridis for many many months.

You are probably more up to date on where he is on his ventures than I am. Still and back to the point, he is an expert on the subject, and I trust the information he posted is valid.

Is he an expert on the subject of fish nutrition?