Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Actually I would have just said it was wrong rather than deceptive.

Thanks for correcting me.

I don't think it is out there but if you find it we would like to see it. I don't even think it is out there for trout. As I said above I have seen studies comparing Salmon done in Canada to examine the differences, if any, between wild and farmed fish. I saw them years ago and I don't remember the figures on the differences although I think the farmed fish were better developed which makes sense since they hadn't had to hunt for their food.


For trout this is not an issue if you feed the correct feed. As the fish grow they are fed a different diet and many trout are kept for years as broodstock. So as long as the diet is appropriate to the fish no problems. However, the diet MUST be appropriate to the fish. If you were to feed a trout diet to SP long term they would die of heart attacks (actually fatty liver disease (I think)) because of the high fat content of trout feeds.


I don't think its been done because it hasn't needed to be done. If there was a significant wild Murray Cod fishery then maybe someone would have compared the two but there isn't so they haven't. If there was a significant natural food (green water pond) aquaculture Silver Perch industry and a significant artificial food Silver Perch industry then maybe a study would have been done but there isn't of either so it hasn't.

I could be wrong and there may be a study out there, after all we have just had a very public demonstration of my fallability , so keep looking and if/when you find it lets us know.

If you find one for trout I'd appreciate that as well.

Thanks all.
This is the sort of article im looking for that features fish farmed in a way that produces near identical fish in terms of fatty acid profiles and ironically healthier in terms of toxins, not bad.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/farmed-s ... z3CD07qkLG

I hopefully can get SP going but it really does seem that RT is the leader as others have mentioned here.

"More so than any other farmed fish I’ve come across, the fatty acid profile of farmed trout closely resembles that of wild trout. For example, a single 100 gram fillet of farmed rainbow trout has a gram of omega-3, 0.7 g of omega-6, 150% of the B12 RDA, and a decent amount of selenium. The same amount of wild trout is extremely similar nutritionally, with the main changes being 200 mg fewer omega-3s and 500 mg fewer omega-6s."

Will follow the bouncy ball and see where it goes.

Hello Dan

Good debate here.

For me the topic of natural fed beef, chicken and fish versus grain fed is a debate about life or death - if it is grain fed against its nature and I consume it it makes me very sick to the extent I end up in bed seriously ill! (And that's saying nothing of what it does to the animals!)

Of course the technical studies revolving around the animals and how they fair on unnatural food is important - but I already have the answers from my own personal experiences. How ever the academics want to measure it I already know it is very definitely wrong to feed grains to these animals.

It's one of the reason I am pursuing aquaponics - in the hope of building a system that I can sustain with natural fish food.

(I have already set up a source of chicken meat and eggs that is grain free. In my experience and therefore opinion it is perhaps criminal the way chickens are farmed against their nature in Australia. I am not just referring to the welfare of the bird - what about what is being done to the health of those who consume the product!)

I am a long way down the track with my discoveries on just how to sustain fish in captivity on other than grain and still have a long way to go. I have been researching for more than a year now and the fish tanks have just arrived for my first aquaponics build.

I intend running the system on seasol until I have more info on fish feed alternatives. I hope to start introducing the fish following that, hopefully by about 12 to 18 months.

All the best with your research Dan. I am progressing very slowly and don't expect that I can help you but if you think I can be sure and ask.

If anyone has any information that may assist me with my pursuit I would very gratefully receive it.

Kind regards all on this fantastic chatsite.
Rodney

who feeds grains to their fish? maybe some omnivores but most fish food is mostly fish meal

you guys are venting with your emotions and not facts.

Brian unfortunately grain is in everything. Even Dog food.

First result googling "grain based fish food"
http://ausgrain.com.au/Back%20Issues/19 ... -based.pdf

There is no venting and no emotion other than entering this with the premise that we want to produce and consume healthy animals and "growth rates" is not an important metric in fish food for some people, like me. Non natural food such as that formulated with grain is also suspect. I personally think the most important metric should be comparison to wild caught equivalent fish and not growth rates.

This discussion is hard to come by. I have looked everywhere, this forum is one of the absolute best so I thought I would try.

Thanks Rodney we share the same sentiments. I have free range chickens as well.

Today I found this,
http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_how ... ith_a_fish

talking about this farm
http://www.vetalapalma.es/index.asp?LG=2

This resonates with me


Yes its an entire wetlands/ecosystem but I feel the same could be applied at a smaller scale in aquaculture/aquaponics.

From my aquarium keeping days, filtration and successful fish keeping in that difficult hobby improved out of sight once people started treating filtration systems like a mini ecosystem and now deep sand beds and fostering healthy microbiota are the norm.

fish meal is a finite resource. It is also subject to oceanic pollution.

The USDA is trying to find alternative fish foods that they feel are as nutritious as fish meal. This is an idea that i dont personally agree with for similar reasons as the corn feed beef issues you suggest in previous post... despite their research "we arent there yet" so i didnt feel it necessary to tangent the point of this thread with politics.

you can vote with your money and feed your fish whatever you want. There are still fish meal options out there.

But if you are looking for a "sustainable fish food solution" there's a topic for a different thread.

and just to reiterate.

you guys are venting with your emotions and not facts.

"Reiterating" it doesn't make it so. You're not constructing an argument either, I have set out the facts I am looking for, others have joined in wanting the same, why are you so defensive?

Looking for a way to grow fish at home and then potentially at some scale that achieves fish identical to what is wild caught is what I am looking for, if it cant be achieved with any commercial food, so be it. The market I am looking to supply right now is me, and if I can achieve scale, people like me.

Brian there is nothing wrong with passion. While you may disagree with them dismissing their concerns as emotional doesn't serve any positive purpose.

As to the grain issue....

AQ feed manufacturers have been working for years to reduce the % of fish meal in their feeds based on the assumption that it would make their feed more "sustainable" and allow us to farm more kg of fish per kg of fish meal. This has meant sourcing other ingredients to replace fish meal.

To a large degree they are succeeding at this with the % of fish meal included in feeds having fallen dramatically over the last decade. While there may be problems with high grain diets in warm blooded animals but I would be careful assuming that it is the case in fish. Fish do suffer from adverse health consequences of a poor diet but my understanding (limited because fish nutrition is a whole field in its self) is that they suffer because of things that are lacking from the diet rather than their being things in excess in the diet. Obviously that statement is only true to a point because too much fat is not good although just enough fat for trout is a hell of a lot.

Ah commercial fish food... the one big (elephant in the room) caveat for aquaponics. Most of our aquaponics systems wouldn't perform well without it eh. It's the weak link in the chain.

Aquaponics is kinda sustainable, 'till the wild ocean fish run out

oh dear.. there has to be a better way

It depends. Long term there will have to be a shift towards herbivorous fish and that will make a big difference. Also finding ways of reducing or substituting ingredients to replace fish meal is another.

The CSIRO reckons they have cracked it with their new prawn feed that has 0% fish meal. Ridley has bought the license to the tech so we hope to see it on sale soon. CSIRO are continuing their research and hope to do the same for fish feeds next.

tilapia and duckweed...problem solved. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Sounds promising

It's the way it needs to go

On Foxtel last night I caught something about bluefin tuna farmers feeding 6 tonnes of sardines a day to each pen of their tuna, off to Japan a 30kilo fish worth around $1000 each.

That is the sort of thing I am talking about, the Japanese would be VERY particular about the blue fin they are eating and I doubt any feed manufacturer could crack them. Some people just want that product.

Sustainability? Different argument. Get the science right first I say.

Keeping cichlids and feeding them mealworms and other things was so much easier

Yes but...

The Japanese culture around food is very much about quality but a lot of value is based on perceived quality. For example while western cultures like their food to look nice in Japan this custumer demand is driven to extreme levels. Carrots have to be unblemished and of uniform size and shape. Fruit can not have ANY cosmetic blemishes.

I wouldn't use Japanese customer demand to support your case.

People are going to continue to demand organic and natural fed whatever but as the developing worlds purchasing power increases the cost of such premium foods is going to go through the roof. That demand will be driven more by perception than science.