Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Umm...I'm a bit concerned about what you seem to be implying in your most recent series of posts.

I am implying what is happening! For some reason you dislike my idea and have put it down a number off times, ok I get that you don’t think that systems need filtering! Let the grow beds do the work, fine that’s your opinion, you are welcome too it! But I see the removal of fish waste to $300 worth of expanded clay an option, I don’t want to clog up my expensive media with fish poo! If you want to do it to your gravel go for it! But seriously I cannot take the risk, and I will not take your advice! Ever!

A while ago we had a string of new people join the forum and start insisting that solids removal components were essential for successful AP.

Is their a slight chance you my be bias here? And not showing true judgment off a new idea?

This idea of mine is working fine, I have never said everyone has to do it! I just said I had an idea! It works for me and now Bcaasey2703,

I find your repeated objections to people filtering their own systems as they see fit offensive, its my system its my choice,

I came here for advice and to share knowledge, I am new to aquaponics but I have raised fish since I was a kid, and I don’t need to be talked down too like some child from the 50s would be,

trying to do the maths concerning the whole situation, amirite.

Blizzard, all he is saying is that if you had more beds/ less fish (the correct ratio) then you willl never have to worry about clogging - he didnt mention this is pretty well dependant on having worms in the system too, which seems to be a less spoken about given in AP.

Now, if your bed does clog up, then it is not the end of your $300 balls, you just have to think more laterally, there are many ways to clean a growbed, especially with easy to move expanded clay balls.
If your bed did clog up - which may well still happen with all the filtering in the world (plant roots are the biggest bed clogger, not fish poo) - then you need to find the appropirate unclogging method, while trying to minimise the work.
e.g. if it is clogged with fish poo, you take the bed offline, fill it to the maximum water level possible, grab your pump and start pumping water into it while aggitating the balls, use the pump to blast the balls down low. Once you have the poo suitably free floating, then pull out your standpipe and dump the water on the ground / down sewer pipe and repeat untill it is clean enough to put it back online.

Bcasey2703, I see you have added flowering plants to keep a balance in your system? I went for basil myself, but then the kid said she loves basil? Most of my plants are leafy greens as that’s what’s recommended for new systems as I have herd, (wait for the negative comments here) anyhow it looks good, send a picture when you move it, as you said up their, I am still looking for bits to get a greenhouse plastic sheeting over my setup, I cant seem to find the right cross fitting I need, I may have to make my own, then I can insulate the fish tank to cut-out the green algae starting on my FT,

What negative comments?
that is what is recommended as nutrient levels are still low.....

Yeah I blather ahaha. I was sitting on fence trying be diplomatic! I can see both sides.

Yeah I am trying for some balance, I also have a rose bush, and have planted some sunflower seeds.

I'm a big believer in the whole "we need to save the bees" so am trying to incorporate always having some flowers.

Thanks but that is what I am trying to avoid, I don’t ever want to have to clean my beds by removing the fish poo before I start fully stocking my fish tank, that’s what I have been saying for weeks, that’s why I made my filter, I have watched the clips on you tube on pond raising fish and aquaponics and they both have clips on filters some with bio balls?

If you like my filter fine, as that is what I will be using in my system, if you don’t like filtering aquaponics systems, fine get over it that some off us do,

I don’t need my filter ATM, I don’t have that many fish and they are only small the ones I have, I have two 300ltr grow beds for one 700ltr FT and a 700ltr sump tank, according to some I should never need a filter? The system I have I should easily put my 20 barra in no problems until they get a lot bigger, that’s why I designed a filter now early before its to late when the fish get larger, its like insurance!

If you want a filter then put one in, if you don’t like filters don’t put people down all the time that do want them? Its simple really, how would you feel if someone said they didn’t like your setup because they do it different, and they have been doing it longer so they are right and you are wrong? People are doing their best with what they have and you cant go telling them they are doing it wrong when they don’t have a problem with it? If they say that they have something wrong then tell them what’s wrong with their system,

My system is perfect for my needs now, I will upgrade in the future when I have the money, and time, but I don’t need to be tolled a system that is working isn’t any good? Compared to some that I have seen on here mine is real good, as I scraped the extra dollars to get the bits I wanted,

Try not to feel too hard done by Blizzard, the comments on your barra thread were mainly trying to let you know that breeding them is more than just putting two fish in an IBC. And that is the honest truth. You can rest assured that every other option has been tried by industry professionals and pioneers before hormone induced spawning was discovered and refined.
Personally I don't see any real problems with your bag filter, but that is mainly because when it blocks up your FT has an extra overflow to bypass it.
I can see a place for something like that before NFT or DWC to polish the water but if you want to stock above what is recommended here I think you will need an aquaculture style biofilter to deal with the excess wastes/nutrients. When the biomass of your fish increases beyond recommendations your system might (probably will) have ammonia spikes without one but as long as you monitor your levels you'll know when or if that happens and can make suitable changes. Removing wastes will compensate for that to some degree but how much, only time and testing will tell.
I'm no expert either and am fairly new to AP, however the guys you are struggling with do know their stuff. If they seemed less than diplomatic with you it really is worth reading some of your earlier posts that do kinda condescend and imply a lack of knowledge or thought on their/our part. Not having a go, just trying to explain where it went south. Jumping onto a forum and implying that you have outsmarted its entire membership base is guaranteed to rub people the wrong way.
Bear in mind that others before you have made similar claims when new (often with much crazier ideas than yours admittedly) and that has led to a natural caution when a new member makes great claims without much experience or successful experiments. And this forum does try hard to make sure that untried/unproven theories are challenged to some degree so that other complete newbies don't read the thread and think that that they are proven and accepted methods.
(I too have a mad idea or two and fully expect and will accept constructive criticism if or when I deviate slightly from the norm. ).
I just noticed that you have 600L of media beds? Sounds like you'll be alright with that anyway, I'm kinda new but that sounds like plenty to me. From memory 20L per fish (assuming 500g growout) is the accepted norm, I could be wrong there but if that's the case you're within the recommended range?
I think you'll be fine to be honest and now my overly-wordy post seems kinda pointless... Sorry man, was trying to help!

On point Bodgy. If you ask for advice, then receive it, you shouldn't be too critical of that advice. From my experience, you could just add some worms to the Gb's and skip the filter. That would probably help your Nitrate rate in(for those flowering plants). Anyways...my 2 cents. Nice looking system and good luck!

Once again I'm concerned about your tone. You are not engaging in a debate on the merits of your idea or in the failings of my contentions. Instead you seem to be taking my responses as some form of personal attack.

I didn't put your idea down. What I did was questioned your assertion that you needed to provide extra filtration because it was necessary to prevent your media bed from clogging. That without fine solids filtration that your media bed would clog.

[quote=Stuart Chignell"]There are some good reasons under certain circumstance for removing the job of filtration and solids processing form GBs but none of those reasons or circumstances are to avoid GB clogging. [/quote]

Now it may be that in your system because of the load that you are subjecting your media bed to it may be necessary to provide more filtration given that you want to produce more fish than plants. If that is the case then the reason you need to install a solids removal component is because you want to produce more fish than plants not because it is inevitable that media beds clog when supplied with fish tank effluent.


This statement indicates a number of things to me. Now I may be wrong but first it seems to me that you may not appreciate the value of the fish poo. In fish tank effluent most of the nutrients are contained within the poo. Now if you want to produce more fish than plants then removing the poo goes a long way to allowing you to do this. However, it comes at a cost because the vast majortity of all the nutrients with the exception of nitrogen are contained with in the fish poo. If you remove all the poo not large the large particles but the small as well then you also remove much of the other nutrients such a phosphorus and potassium. Now this isn't a problem if you don't want to grow many plants and of the plants you do want to grow you don't want to grow many if any fruiting plants.

Second like many people before you from an aquaculture background you have a bias towards the belief that removing the solids fraction of the waste is essential and that not doing so will cause you many problems including the death of your fish. Now it certainly can but there are many systems extensively detailed on this forum that demonstrate that systems can be run sustainably for, so far, over a decade without any signs of the media beds clogging their expensive clay media.

Through this whole discussion I have not criticised your desire to grow more fish or your method of filtering. What I have challenged is the view that you have expounded that systems based solely on media beds result in among other things in the death of fish. This is especially concerning because your main source of support for this mistaken belief was a series of you tube videos.


Well there isn't really anything new in what you are suggesting. Every now and then someone joins the forum and starts talking about a bunch of stuff that indicates they don't have the full picture. That is not a problem because you have to start some where. As to my apparent bias I find it a bit odd that you should suggest this when the first post I made on this thread was to give several examples of where media beds where not appropriate and not a good idea. If I was truly biased unreasonably towards media beds would I have done that?


This statement just demonstrates that you are not actually reading what I am writing. I don't have any objections to you designing your system any way you like but what I have challenged in some of your assertions that are not accurate. The most blatant being...



In one paragraph you insult the owner of this forum, you scorn the introductory information on offer, and you display an ignorance of media based systems that your experience with aquarium fish has conditioned you to fear.


Again you you indicate your fear of media beds, you inflate the risk because you do not understand the processes or design requirements. Rather than learning about media beds their advantages and disadvantages you close your mind. Now challenging your statements is confrontational and because of the way you are responding unpleasant but if we let them stand unchallenged some new person may later read them and believe them to be true.

Blizzard, I don't think anyone on this forum wants to see you fail or is really ridiculing you.

Yes you may be not receiving a wholly positive response to your posts, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, criticisms and critiques can often be helpful to provide you with a perspective or an aspect of an idea you hadn't thought of. And in the same way, you may be able to provide others with an idea or perspective that they hadn't thought of.

But I do think that you're doing yourself a disservice in a sense by the way you post and some comments and responses you give. You may or may not be intending it to be so, but you have (from my point of view) come across a bit rude on occasion, or a little too boastful and 'full of yourself'. Also a number of your posts are finished with comments that to me are quite narky. Now, I'm not saying you ARE actually being like that, but to me I personally do get that impression from a lot of your posts. I don't want to offend or inflame by saying that, that isn't my intention, I just know I'm interested in how I come across online at times as it's really easy for things to get lost in 'translation'.

I could copy and paste a few examples of the above but to be honest I'm lazy in that regard, lol. I just wanted to say that maybe it's worth thinking about how you're choosing to reply and see if there is a better way to say it or things that you really don't need to put in (things that may only serve to put people off or get their hackles up a bit).

You are doing nothing wrong in trying to think of new ways to do things or wanting to go down routes others either have or haven't done. Everyone here wants everyone else to be successful in their endeavors with AP, it's always great to see others succeed with something you are passionate about. Please don't take negative feedback as ridicule. Sometimes negative feedback will be of value, sometimes it won't be, just don't take it personally. Like I said, no one wants to see you fail.

Just perhaps have a look at the way you speak in your threads to ensure your ideas come across in the RIGHT way. For your sake and the reception you will receive, and so you can properly share your ideas with those who want to use them too.

With that ramble said, I apologize if you take this as a personal attack as it's not my intention, I just don't like seeing unnecessary conflict. Feel free to disregard what I've said, although I do hope you can see where I'm coming from and that I don't mean it to make things worse.

Ideas should be shared, debated and discussed without it needing to get personal. We can all benefit that way.

Actually there is no problem being critical of advice. Indeed you should be if you think the advice is wrong. What is not good is making personal attacks and attributing negative motivations to that advice.

On the worm thing. Worms are thought to greatly improve the rate of solids processing within the GBs but some systems don't have any and still do ok. In some cases the loads are lighter while in others different organisms do the same job as the worms so they are not needed.

It would be nice if there was a study on solid processing in media beds with and without worms but as far as I know we only have people anecdotal impressions that the worm really make a difference

On the need to clean media beds checkout Faye's System

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1622&hilit=faye%27s+system

Media beds have never been cleaned and after 7 years still show no signs of needing to. You don't have to do it that way and its not even the "best" way to do it but there are a lot of advantages to this design by Joel especially for a BYAP system.