Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Nervously he begins to frame his thoughs, comtemplating the keyboard with trepedation.

Corporations may be seperate legal entities with their own rights and obligations but they are not seperate entities in practice. They are financial extensions of the people who own and or control them.




When the sort of thing that I believe Rup is talking about occur we are not granting access to the corporation but really to the owners and executives. When this occurs it is for the benefits of peoples and their families but those people are the owners/operators of the corporation. When this works peolpe make money, have livelihoods, better the comunity, look after the environment, etc. (all those nice text book good catipalist stuff).

Unfortunately because the system involves people it often dosn't work and we get a situation like in WA with Brian Burke. Decisions were made not to benifit companies but to benefit Burke and his cronies.



I can see how many people reach that point of view but there are a lot of people out there who are looking to use their finincial power for the betterment of more than themselves and imediate family.



Any system that involves people will be flawed whether its fatally or not depends on the people themselves.

Stuart

People do not make a system flawed , flawed systems attract [s]flawed[/s] misguided people.

Stuart-- I would like to think the oposite and you too though it is your thought choice not mine--and am not throwing the first stone, instead give you praise for saying what you see.

How about we do what we all agree is the best way to live life and in that way we will be making the first step.

In some way we are all powerful entities and hold the key to sucess, health and happiness.

If you feel something needs adjusting then set in place an action, make an effort to 'keep ppl on the same page'. Be creative with you wants and desires, your needs will be met, because those are your strengths and have been set in place since your birth, which you keep re-asserting.

Now is the time to focus on how we want the future to be and forget how it was.
we are in a BOOMING economy do it now a general recession is probably on it's way. I have done what I can to insulate (buffer) those around me by suggesting their focus be fine tuned. we do make a difference.
Ooops sorry for hijack

On topic- esperance is such a beautiful spot, all the islands and deep blue water and beaches.
Nature will clean it up !
C1

I am not sure what state it is in, but Esperance locals where fighting tooth and nail against Kalis putting Tuna farms between some of those beautiful islands with the deep blue water, on the grounds of attracting sharks/eco damage.

Edit: ecosys' avatar has made me go and make coffee

Oh well theres a silver lining in everything then.

High lead levels means no tuna farms.

Stuart

I'm joking really.

Run away, away....

sound like a good name for a song - Stuart

But even though they are owned and controled by people, most large corporations are owned by shareholders. Shareholders generally have one interest in mind, to return dividends on their investments. SO they are legal entities that are an extension, a manifestation of human greed.



I feel that Rup is fairly close to the mark. Can anyone name a top 10 company in Australia that does something for the good of it's customers, a company that takes a sacrifice of profit to help the environment or comunity in any way? If and when they do, generally it's slight of hand minor gestures to focus people on particular points, while with their other hand......

Are there any large corporations that do anything above and beyond what they legaly have to for their workers (not management)?

See although corporations are run by people, they are not truly an extension of those people in a whole. People will often do things for the good of others, purely as a generous act to make others feel good, selfless acts, this is part of human nature in most people. Corporations, although an extension of those same humans, will not..

Westpac reckon they don't invest in things that damage the environment

EB difficult question to answer, thought I could name a few who have made good but not with out some kind of reward or prompted by feelings of guilt-- warm fuzzy feeling for the board of directors and share holders, no, tax deductions, assistance packages, to mine sand, yeh good for the ecconomy ah all warm and fuzzy...hehehehe
My business isn't top 10 might be one day if I remain true to my philosophies and the community supports me in my endevors.
The big corps are only tax collectors they don't make money, they can't they don't pay tax. just employ s283t loads of ppl who pay tax. so the gov gives them coin to keep doing their stuff.

time to see what good IS being done around town and join in, turah

What? like, err, other than property? shopping centers etc
trick statement that eh Mon !!!

I personally believe that putting the focus on the corporation dimishishes the responsibility of the shareholders and executives.

I believe that on the surface of things your observation is 100% correct but when you get to the heart or causation of things the focus must be on the people.

Executives push for greater profits in irresponsible ways because of either rewards systems (greed) and or pressure to maximise profits (fear) derived from the board and by extension the shareholders. Apathy and or greed on the part of the shareholders fosters or even demands irresponsible behaviour by the executive. Just because the sharholders might be a large mob of people and that the practice is common accross many companies does not entitle the executive to the Nuremberg defense (I was ordered to exterminate the jews/ maximise profits).

So EB I would agree that the attitude and practice that you observe and rightly criticise is present in a significant number of modern (and historical) corporations but it is still people that make the everyday decisions.

Excellent example is the building supplies company, started with an H, big aspetos victim claim...(Brain blockage).

Whoever. Anyway executive become aware of massive legal compensation obligation. Do they fess up and make good? No, they run around covering their butts and do everything they can to limit their obligations and ecape their resonsibilities. ( AH hah James Hardy memroy like a steel... whats aname). Eventually as always these things come to the surface and they still wiggle and squirm doing everything they can to avoid their obligations. Despite numerous shareholder meetings not once is there a successful vote by the shareholders carrying the motion to meet their ethical (and for that matter financial) responsibilities. So in this case both the board and the shareholders and consequently the corporation failed to meet their ethical and moral obligations until nailed to the floor by the government and external public pressure.

It used to be that the financial power held by corporations was controlled by a relatively small segment of the population. I personally believe that as more and more people become shareholders it is crucial that a responsible attitude to share owernship is spread through the community. If you have shares in a company even if it is only 2 you have a responsibility to observe that corporations actions and cast your votes in any decisions that are put to the shareholders. The most common and one of the most important ballots that all sharholders should be participating in is the election of their representatives to the board. If ever their representatives should act is a way that is not to their liking they should make their voice heard.

Stuart (Market huggin Catipalist)

PS Maybe we should start an economics thread?

As more and more people become share holders of these companies, unfortunately rather than having the effect of spreading "responsible ownership throughout the community" it has almost the opposite effect.

You speak with any average Joe in the street who is dabbling in a little investment. They don't give the slightest damn what they are investing in, so long as it's on the way up, and they're going to make some money out of it... I mean, do you know one person who invests as a shoreholder in a large company, that takes interest, and even further, gets involved in the decision making within the corporation? To most share holders this is an extreme action..

Also, the bigger your investment in the company, the more you're going to want to see the company make larger returns, and not be held accountable for questionable actions.. As you pointed out with James Hardy, and as we've seen with so many other examples, in the text books it may look good, but in reality, not so good..

Perhaps I'm just cynical, I mean it is a great idea to share this responsibility and make companies answerable to it's share holders so that people can help steer a company to an extent, and make the directors more accountable... But the new age of every second mum and dad having a share portfolio, investing through the internet on the weekends, isn't conducive with wanting to have a say in the running of the company, it's just about making money.... Which I guess shouldn't be surprising, because after all isn't that the root of capitalism...

I think that just as communism collapsed, we will be seeing a collapse of capitalism along with the decrease in oil production, which has been the the engine driving it for all these years.

Ummmmm, what were we talking about anyway?

I guess it all boils down to the inherant greed of people no matter what level they are at either in society, or business. I see corporations in a capitalist society as a vehicle of greed, and one which allowes people to detach themselves from any personal responsibility to a certain extent...

But then as I said, I'm inherently cynical...

Oh and C1, I hope your business is top 10 one day...

right up there with BYA

cheers EB equal billing @ top spot eh!