Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

a diagram might help - garry?
Does the filter have its own pump or rely on another pump ?
Does all your water go through the filter?
I am curious about the nitrate levels (all the bits that the filter cant remove) - how are you copeing with those? Have you planted more in your growbeds?
Oh yes, how long has it been in as you say the water is clearer now (its great to watch those meals grow in size ), and how often do you have to clean that filter with the increased numbers of fish?

Gary runs open loop to planting trays and adds fresh water regularly. This dilutes nitrates to where they need to be and does not waste because the plants in the open loop needed water from somewhere anyway. It is quite the controllable process.

My closed loop system demands enough growbed to handle the nitrates. I am in a greenhouse with little expansion possibilities. Already planning a pipe thru the wall for open loop beds outside.

so both of you have a seperate tank for ageing water, or do you just add straight from the tap?

Mine is straight from a well with water temp about 11C, pH about 8, and lots of calcium carbonates, acceptable iron, and no objectionable content (like arsenic, which occurs in deeper wells north of me). My well is 110 feet with very good flow all year. I do have a multilayer upflow 100 gallon filter in a Rubbermaid stock tank between fish tank and grow bed. Need to point out I am not flood and drain. I am raft DFT with 8 inches of water in growbeds all the time maintained with two 8" stand pipes in GB. My plan for open loop beds outside is to backflush my filter to water the O/S beds. Kill two birds with one stone.

lucky bugger - own well, so no need to pay council for the water you use every few days.
For most of us its more about the challenge of getting our system to imitate nature and make the most of nature's tools to keep the water clean and healthy - quite the challenge sometimes, but only when I do 'silly' or 'dumb' stuff which throws it all out of balance ... This is why I enquire about the expensive filter as I know and firmly believe that one does not need to go to that expense - however, if you are only doing raft DFT, DWC or something along those lines, then you will be dependant apon filters such as that one GArry is using... Clear water is great, but I have found that it does not make for a better system... A lot of the successful systems on BYAP have had 'soup' problems (should rather say the 'soup' phase}, but it balances out and goes away eventually as your system balances itself and the plants deny the algae its food source.... I have filtered my system for the past 3 days duew to over eager feeding - fattening up my fish with 3 feeds a day so I have that extra poo in the water now and it made the water murky - the only reason I filter it is that I want to put my new fish in that tank tomorrow and as they are small I want to be able to track their progress...
For me a filter is an extra, but not a must, as my growbeds would eventually have cleaned that water up - guess it boils down top personal prefrence and (as I have demonstrated with my filtering) your level of patience (or impatience in my case) as the growbeds in my system IS a filter.
Still like to see a diagram to see the water flow in that system Garry as it is looking nice and complicated...

Hi,

To respond to some of the comments…….

While I don’t have much of a problem with algae (because my system is inside my shed), I did notice an improvement in water clarity after I turned the UV light on (previously I’d left it off). The only explanation that I have is that the bit of sunlight that comes through the doorway and window of the shed is creating a bit of algae growth.

The biggest issue was the amount of suspended matter that soiled our water as our fish continued to grow.

It doesn’t matter if the UV kills some beneficial bacteria – most of it lives on the bio-filter media and in our small gravel grow bed anyway.

Yes, the pressure filter is one of those sold by Murray. It compliments the trickling bio-filters filled with oyster shells. It does not have its own pump. We’re still using the same RIO 17HF to move water around the system.

My system is tightly stocked with 44 Jade Perch (almost of eating size) in the large tank and another 66 fingerlings in the 250 litre tank.

The pressure filter traps the fish poop very effectively…..and this is the biggest influence on the water clarity (and quality). Currently, we clean the filter weekly. The sediment that we recover has been used on our fruiting plants like tomatoes and cucumbers. In the future, it will be put into our worm bed where we believe it will be more use.

Some of the past comments that I’ve read, about retained solids, defy logic. The fact is that, once the solids have been through the pump a few times, the “goodies” contained in fish poop eventually end up on solution in the water.

“Expensive” is a relative term that means little without qualification. I feel that the investment is worthwhile given the impact that it has on my system.

Nitrates are no problem; we use plants to remove those – like everyone else.

I agree that clear water doesn’t make for a better system but, all things being equal, I’d prefer clear water.

AM……I’m entirely comfortable with the fact that you choose not to use a pressure filter. I use one because it suits my particular circumstances.

My system is no less “natural” than anyone else’s. It comprises one small gravel grow bed (recirculating) and several tubs, trays and satellite pots (open loop). It uses no more water than a full recirculating system of similar area. In fact, I’d be willing to suggest that it probably uses less – largely because of the way that coco-peat works (relative to gravel).

As for the water flow……my pump pushes all of the water through the pressure filter – from there the flow is divided between the two trickling bio-filters, the 200 litre sedimentation/top up drum and the 250 litre fingerling tank – all of which drain back into the tank.

I have a tiny 20 watt submersible that waters my small flood and drain gravel bed.

It’s not really complicated at all……but (relative to its size) it is very productive.

Gary

Just looked it from the pic

thank you for the info


Not having used coco peat please fill me in... the more I know the better (well, for me anyway )

when ya gonna post pics of a fish bbq - or ya gonna go for the BIG fish and hang on to them for a few more months?

Hi AM,

No problems.....glad to be of help.

Coco-peat never heats up like our gravel bed so there is not likely to be the same level of evaporation.

Coco peat holds water very well. In the tray system we use, the coco-peat stays moist for days.

When we first started using it for aquaponics, we were watering it every two or three days. We started to experience some problems with some plants due to root rot and fungal problems. As it turned out, we were watering it too often.

We now allow the coco-peat to dry out between waterings and most of our plants are thriving under this regime. It has extended our watering intervals to up to seven days......particularly now that the weather has begun to cool off a little. When we water, we add enough for it to dribble from the drain hole in the tray.

There are several grades of coco peat.....we've used the coarse and fine grades. The coarse grade seems to work much better for Aquaponics.

Murray is also using coarse coco-peat in one of his large grow beds. He uses a cup and a bucket to water the plants each day....and they are thriving.

I must confess that, while some of my fish are probably big enough to eat, I'm not in any real hurry to start cooking them. I guess it's a matter of wanting to realise the productive potential of my small system.....and a sense of attachment. Like most of us, I get a sense of pleasure from just watching them glide about effortlessly.

Gary

Thanks Gary... still a little confused as to the purpose of the sedimentation tank and where it sits in the flow....

Presumably, by name, it's purpose is to catch sediment... from where???

Doesn't either the cocopeat bed and/or the filter trap the sediments???

Or, as it's a top up tank... is it just intended to be filled from rain capture and to allow any sediment to settle out before being used for top ups???


P.S... Saw a similar looking filter Here on eBay

Is it the same one or about the same specs????

Gaz, you sure on that one?

I ask because i feel the opposite (we're both entitles to our views ) AND the fact thst it sort of contradicts the next quote I mean why bother putting it on the fruiting plants if all the goodies have been dissolved in water?



Steve

Gary, I visited a technology school near my home that teaches aquaculture and aquaponics. They have a pressurized filter like you added and they are very pleased with it. It is the only filter they use and they claim it removes solids very well and has the bacteria for nitrification. They are compact and easy to clean. Their water was very clear and they had large tilapia they were hoping would breed.

I am trying coco peat in net pots in my raft system. Most of my seedlings are very small yet and I am actively transplanting from seedling flats to these pots (I will be doing some today). A couple of summer squash are getting large and I have checked on their roots. They are already hanging down about 15cm into the water. The coco peat seems to keep the air roots in excellent shape and allows me to do some top feeding until my fish take over. My circulating water is almost nutrient free because my fish arrive in a few weeks(I an cycling with ammonia now). The coco peat looks like a winner. I learned about it from you....THANKS.

DB, what are they growing?

Just for the sake of clarity for anyone (new or recently) following this thread.... that's probably true DB....

Usually these types of filters contain a removable sponge which captures suspended particles (solids) and some sort of media... commonly these days it's plastic noodles/bio-balls... which provide the surface area for the nitrifying bacteria.

This replaces the gravel, hydroton clay, perlite, cocopeat grow media most people use in their grow beds for the same purpose.

The point of contention seems to be whether or not these filters are beneficial overall as....

They do remove a proportion of the solids (filter must be periodically cleaned) that many feel provide essential trace elements to plant growth in the beds and provide a more robust and balanced system....

And the fact that they do not remove the nitrates from the nutrient rich water.... or at least not to anywhere near the extent that a growbed full of plants will... only some possible removal by gassing off...

Gary's approach to nitrate removal is different to most others on this forum in that he is less closed loop... or more open loop... which ever way you want to look at it....

Gary's approach of watering to satellite pots and regular (I think he said about 10%) changes/top-ups of water removes a proportion of the nitrates from the system that others remove by utilising extra growbeds.

The argument seems to be more a matter of those that prefer the closed loop - near total reusage of water within the system...

As opposed to those who are prepared to adopt a more open loop approach to AP.

I do note Gary that you maintain that in fact plant transpiration and evaporation from tanks and growbeds MAY in fact be more than the 10% usage by your approach...

The secondary difference and perhaps main point of difference would seem to be whether or not removal of some solids and removal of nitrates by water changes has an effect on the overall balance of an AP system???.....

Ultimatly IMHO I think that many have an uneasiness that Gary's approach doesn't satisfy the holistic aspect of AP that they may themselves perhaps prefer...

Myself... I'll confess to prefering a more "holistic" approach and I do wonder if the use of such a filter is really cost efficient... but that's also perhaps a personal cost constraint.... just seems to me that $400 would buy several productive plant growing growbeds... and could even allow higher stocking levels of fish...

But to each their own....

Steve, they did not care what they grew because it was a classroom mainly concerned with aquaculture (course name was aquaculture). The instructor wanted to introduce them to aquaponics. They had tomatoes, lettuce, and basil when I saw it. I think it varies. They were using raft system.

Rupert, I'll bet that there can be very many successful approaches to AP and I agree to each their own. So many things affect any given system. Dr. Savidov in Alberta, Canada was raising small commercial quantities of basil and had tried successfuly over 20 types of crops successfuly including fruiting crops (tomatoes and peppers, etc). He was using raft system and considered low solubility solids as important to outperforming hydroponics, which he does. He also maintains a pH of 6.5 and observes a very marked increase after a system runs 6 months. He is investigating why. He also does not have to add chelated iron due to low pH or whatever the 6 month affect is (perhaps a bacteria that forms that aids plant absorption). We all need to keep an open mind or we lose out. The flood and drain gravel system has certainly proved itself. On the other hand it certainly can not be set as the best way ever or beyond being bettered...just a great way of doing it, that people know works.

I really value those who risk 'taking one for the team' and explore new or even not new methods that can be adapted even further...and so on....and so on. By our discussions here we learn much about stuff none of us has the time to try...excellent!

Steve, they also grew duckweed in another flow thru tray and fed it to the tilapia...I forgot that until I pressed submit on the last message...that has to be a Murphy corollary.