Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hello there. Brand new to AP and Backyard Aquaponics. I heard about AP and a friend gave me part of his old system, so I am finishing that out. I'm in the Dallas, TX USA area.

Attached is an image of the basic system I plan on building. I have grand plans for more growbeds and even a greenhouse, but I'll have to wait and see how we do with just 2 small gb first.

System details.... since it gets hot here in Texas, I'm planning on partially burying the 330 IBC tank. I am taking the (probably unnecessary) step of adding a DIY swirl filter into the system. I hope it'll keep me from having to clean the IBC tank and growbeds; and, I can overstock the fish until I get the rest of the growbeds going. So, I'll be using a SLO from the fish tank to the sump/filter tank. I want to create suction so it is always draining the fish tank. The water will spill over the bucket leaving the heavy solids trapped in the bottom for easy removal. The pump will pickup the overflow and pump to the grow beds. If it works the way I think it will, the SLO will draw in more water than the pump can handle (not sure how to calculate?), eventually filling the sump tank. I've got an overflow return back to the fish tank for when the sump tank does get full. In addition to that, the GB will drain into the fish tank. I'm working on a DIY Venturi to add oxygen on one of the return lines, but haven't finished working that out yet. The image doesn't show it, but I know I'll need to cut some kind of opening in the top of the IBC for access inside it. That step is TBD still.

I'd love to hear any feedback on my plans before I start digging and cutting holes in my tank. Specifically, I'd like to know a couple of things:
1. Will the SLO create suction and "drain" the fish tank or will both the fish tank and sump tank reach an equilibrium?
2. In order to remove the bucket for cleaning, I intend to add a cutoff valve so as to prevent the seal on the SLO from breaking (not sure how to describe that). Is that necessary and will it actually work like that?
3. Is one source of drain enough for the SLO or will solids collect in the other corners of the fish tank? If I need more, how many?
4. Does anyone think I need more oxygen, or if I simply splash the drain from the GB and the sump overflow return, will that be enough?

Any thoughts/comments/tips & tricks are appreciated. Thank you in advance!


-michaelmew

One thing I've found is that the larger the sump, the better off you are. I made the mistake of initially using a 55 gallon blue barrel as a sump. I found that I run out of water quite quickly during the fill/drain cycle. If you can swing it, get a second IBC now to save future headaches / replumbing.


I'll take a stab at a couple of your questions.


Change your 90 elbow to a "T" so it will not drain the fish tank.
2. In order to remove the bucket for cleaning, I intend to add a cutoff valve so as to prevent the seal on the SLO from breaking (not sure how to describe that). Is that necessary and will it actually work like that?

3. Is one source of drain enough for the SLO or will solids collect in the other corners of the fish tank? If I need more, how many?
It would be a good idea to run a pipe with slots/holes in it across the bottom of the FT so it draws water/solids from a larger area. The fish will keep it stirred up for the most part.

Welcome Michaelmew! A few things. First stock to your current grow bed arrangement, and add fish later when you expand. Over stocking could kill all of your fish. Next, for your SLO, put a tee on the top part inside the fish tank, that will prevent a siphon, and keep the tank from draining, it will only outlet what you put in.

Thanks for the response!

Good idea on stocking current setup and adding later.

For the SLO, my plan is to create the siphon so it will be constantly moving from the FT to ST and back. Since my FT is going to be buried but my ST won't be, I need to avoid an equilibrium, otherwise I'll be stuck with a completely full FT and half full ST. Right?

I'll add some more points of drain along the bottom of the FT for the SLO.

tacosalad, that's my concern about pumping the ST dry. If I create a siphon on the SLO, then in theory, it will drain the FT faster than my little pump can push to the GB, in effect filling the ST. When it gets to the top of the ST, the overflow will direct the excess back to the FT. And, since the FT is much larger than the ST, it can "never" drain the FT. the water level will vary in the FT, but I'm willing to live with that unless you guys think that is a huge mistake.



-michaelmew

I'd change a few things, you've got your sump pumping to the GB's and also overflowing back to the FT, I would pump from the sump to the FT and and run the SLO to the GB's.

Put a "T" in the SLO as the others suggested, run an emergency overflow with the outlet at a higher level than the SLO outlet back to the sump.

The SLO works as an overflow, there's no suction, it is the amount of water being pumped into the tank and leaving back out through the SLO. It simple that if the SLO wasn't there the water would leave the tank by overflowing the sides, the SLO is it's exit point.

The emergency overflow is just that, it's just in case the SLO blocks or is restricted in anyway the excess water flows back to the sump and stops the pump from running dry.

Thanks joblow.

Since the GB are ~2' above the top of the FT, then how do I get the SLO to initialize. I wish I would've paid more attention in high school.... by adding a Tee, won't that create a situation where the water flows from more to less; and in my case higher to lower? I think that flow is backwards. Am I missing something? Maybe what I want isn't a SLO after all. Maybe I need a different term. I'd like to get the water (& solids) sucked from the bottom of the FT into the ST. Then, flow into the GB and drain to the FT. The overflow return from ST to FT was just emergency as you mentioned but to prevent the ST flooding rather than protect the pump.

I appreciate the advice and tips. I know there is more than 1 way to do this, so I'm eager to keep looking for my best of all worlds solution.


-michaelmew

See if this new image makes more sense.

I added the ground for context and another line for the SLO. I also added some parts of the DIY bell siphon in the GB. The GB wont be floating, they have a wooden rack supporting them so the top is ~3' above the ground.


-michaelmew

I see.

You may want to re-think your layout just a bit.

FT == Highest

----Overflows to growbeds via SLO (With overflow pipe to sump in case the flow is to high)

Grow beds == Second highest (Gravity fed from FT)
----Drain via siphon to Sump

Sump == lowest point (Pump from the sump into the fish tank)


If you do get a second IBC for the sump, you could just swap it for where your fishtank is currently.

Micheal the "T" is to break any siphon that might occur and drain your fish tank it does nothing else, it wont alter anything, it only allows air in to stop any siphoning happening and does not control any flow.

The pipe you have running back to the FT is just taking fish solids (poo) back into your fish tank, you don't need it, the bucket in the sump will not work, check out Radial Flow Filter and you'll see the bucket is upside down. It needs to be in a separate situation away from your sump, just forget that for now, you can always add a filter in later.

The outlet from the SLO will need too be higher than the growbeds too allow the water to gravitate down to the FT, the growbed are gravity fed not pumped.

The diagram below is incorrect in the fact it shows the water level in the FT being too high, that occurs when the pump is pumping faster than the SLO is copping and it's heading for an overflow situation. The exact reason for running an overflow pipe back to the sump.

In normal running the water level in the fish tank WILL NOT go any higher than the height of the SLO outlet or it eventually overflows, plus the extension above the "T" doesn't need to be very high, it just gives a little extra height to the "T" to stop any fish getting into the SLO.

I wouldn't run a slotted SLO across the bottom of the FT, I've lost fish up through the slots and would never use that type of system again, your fish swimming about should move any solids and then the SLO with pick them up, or an occasional sweep will do the job,

Michael if it's still not clear or you're not sure PM me and I'll spend the time and draw it up for you.

Joe

Thanks guys, really appreciate the help.

I've seen diagrams of the systems you guys are recommending, except I'm going bury the FT so it can't gravity feed the GB. Everything else I've come up with is a result of that issue.

Joblow, I'm bummed to hear that the bucket won't work. Like you said though it's a little unnecessary, so I can leave it out and figure that out later. I found some nifty drain cages at a tractor supply store. Not sure how to even describe them. I'll grab a picture when I get things assembled.



-michaelmew

Michael the reason the bucket won't work is that the water flow from your SLO is shooting down into the bucket and forcing the water to rise, and that water rising will bring the solids up with it.

They wont settle in the bottom of the bucket, they will be dragged up with the flow.

In reverse where the bucket is on top with the water flowing up into the bucket and falling down, the solids will fall to bottom and not be forced up with the rising water.

Make a separate RFF and put it between the SLO and the GB, and that can be added later, as for burying the FT, I wouldn't leave that for your next system, start small, learn, see the problems and then grow from there.


If I ever build another system it would be nothing like the add hock system I have now. and that's because I now know more about how things run than when I was feeling my way and learning by mistakes. It's that knowledge that comes from experience and mistakes, and if you start off somewhere near right first up the learning curve is a lot less.

Ok, I see now how none of this will work the way I planned. So, I'm going completely back to the drawing board.

Let's start with burying the FT. The GB drain will be above the top of the FT. What I can't figure out is, how to move the water and solids from the FT without putting a pump in the FT? Also, per joblow, I'd like to have a sump with a RFF before the GB. The sump/settler/whatever can be at whatever height it needs to be at to make the pieces fit.

I posted a similar response/request here, fyi: http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21949&p=463978#p463978

Thanks!
michaelmew