Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Had a look at your pictures on page 1.

So you have a big tank and a 2x IBC sump tanks.

Here I can see one in and one going up on the left (fish tank)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/330 ... G_0999.JPG

Here I can see 2 verticals and one coming in (sump)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/330 ... G_0993.JPG

Not sure what you mean by siphoning with more explanation needed.

I made an interesting elbow SLO - rather than having a T at the top to stop siphoning - I used an elbow - and rather than having the tank fully siphon out I used some small holes in the side of the pipe - which allow a siphon but the lower it gets the more air comes in and then it stops before getting to the bottom.

See here

ok - the vertical one you can see coming out of the centre of the main tank is siphoning into the sump tanks which are dug into the ground.

I like the idea with the holes along the pipe and had thought of something similar but see two problems with it.

1) Lack of accuracy - how do you know when the siphon is going to cut out without testing it (bearing in mind I have 200 fish in the tank now

2) Loss of suction - I am relying on the suction power of the siphon to remove the solids from the tank. You can see from the photos the inlet is running against the edge of the tank to cause a swirling action but the usefulness of that action on moving the detritus toward the centre of the tank is quite reliant on the suction of the siphon to complete the vortex. If you put a lot of holes along the siphon then less water will be drawn up from the bottom but how much is the question....

What's the story with the "T"?

Wow - you are siphoning that high? crazy

You need to redesign I think.

Cut a hole in the fish tank at the level you want it to stay.
Then run a traditional SLO - which I'm sure you know or need to know about.

**EDIT
Rereading your post - I don't think you know what an SLO is??? -
Heres a picture I found on google images


An example (with the T to stop siphoning)

Hi TG, yeah you need to understand the SLO concept then the possibility of draining the tank disappears.
An SLO is a "solids lift overflow". This is the piping that Jay showed above. You should not have a siphon in the tank but have an SLO instead. The bottom of the SLO is not shown but usually it is a long pipe along the bottom with slots cut into it this pulls in the solids from the tank. The fish tank then overflows into the grow beds. The grow beds operate with a bell siphon (usually) and drain into the sump tank. The pump is in the sump tank pumping water up into the fish tank.

As you can see in this case the fish tank cannot drain out due to the siphon effect as it does not have a siphon but an overflow and because the overflow has an opening to the atmosphere this stops the overflow from turning into a siphon.

This is a very fundamental part of the design of an AP system to avoid your tank being emptied if something goes wrong and nearly everyone I have seen on this forum has had something go wrong at one time or another so it is really worth implementing this to improve the safety of your fish.

I hope this post is helpful and taken with the intention it was written - to help your AP system become more resilient to failure.



Regards, Martin.

Hi

Thanks for the info. Seems like i could quite easily do that with my existing overflow pipe. But a couple of questions.

As i still couldn't have it flowing into the growbeds by gravity - would i stick a pump on it somewhere?

Say i just left it flowing (without pumping) into the sumps - will there be enough draw to pull the solids outs?

Do I need the pipe going across the whole floor - or just half? What about fish banging into it?

Atm I have a 18000lph pumping from the sumps into the growbeds - 30min off, 30 off. 12000lph pumping from the sump to the main tanks and a 9000lph on a float switch to stop the sumps overflowing.

Wow - complicated.

I won't comment on the different pumps you have.

But for SLO design just put a big 100mm or 90mm pipe down into the centre (or the lowest point) where the solids accumulate. Then you can either put a vent cal on the bottom or if you want an elbow and length of pipe running along the bottom with holes/slits and capped off. Make sure you have enough holes to match your water coming in. Fish swimming and water flow will make the solids go up the SLO.

So to answer this question - yes.


So I've read this part

So do you have CHOP2 or CHIFT PIST?
When you say pumping from sump to growbeds AND fishtank - this suggests that its CHOP2.

But then you have 2 sumps - so I'm confused.

Hi TG, IMO there is little wrong with the way your system is set up. 1st. Just put a big hole or slot in the FT syphon pipe, about 200mm down from the elbow. This will break the syphon.
2nd. I don't use syphons in the GBs anymore, I do F&D. 3rd. Put a RFF between the FT and GBs.

I also use a large sump pump from sump to FT (this allows to build a head of water in the FT) and find that it only runs for about 4mins total in an hour (4x1 min)

Here is a schematic I did long ago to explain to someone.

PM me for a heap of photos etc.

So do you have CHOP2 or CHIFT PIST?

I don't know what either of those is. The 18000 l/ph is pumping up from the sump into the growbeds - they have standpipes, they overflow into the tanks below them which are all (double) plumbed together - the water runs back into the sump tank. that pump is on 30min - off 30min - enough time for the growbeds to drain completely.

The 12000 l /ph is pumping continuously into the main fish tank - it overflows and siphons straight back into the sump tanks.

The 9000 l / ph is pumping into the main fish tank - It's on a float switch - I've recently adjusted it so its on about half the time coz now its acting as an aerator.

The sump is 2 1000 litre IBCs but they are plumbed together and the pumps flow into the opposite one they draw from.

It is a bit complicated but it was that or bury a 7000l fish tank coz the backyard is on a slope but not enough of one to make it a gravity fed system up or down. the IBC are just the wrong height too.

The advantages are high water flow which the fish love. Bear in mind the most of the 19 growbeds have tanks underneath them so in total we are talking about 12,000 litres of water.

The siphon is so high 1) because that how high the frame for the tank canopy is and to I want to be able to walk under it.


@ Chainsaw - what's an RFF? Also I don't know what a uniseal is - I used sink fittings and they work really well

Do a search for Radial Flow Filter (RFF) there is plenty of info on the site.

Also search for Uniseal there is a whole topic here on them.

Your sump capacity only needs to be 25% of total GB capacity, most of the volume is taken up by media.

Only way to aireate your FT is to use a diaphragm air pump (they are quite and reliable) I use a Blagdon 60/LPM and is a great backup should the system run low on water and the float switch doesn't turn your pump on. Mind you I also have a dedicated backup system. Search "Chainsaw's 12V Backup System" That should keep you occupied for a while.

My Barra system is probably over 20,000 Litres and I have grown 2 lots of fish (2 year old) on the same principle.

So go out of your fish tank and immediately elbow down and then elbow across the ground and into your sump - walk over the pipe or make a ramp
This would make it CHIFT or 'Constant Height In Fish Tank'

Ok - big update...

So I stopped the siphon and replaced it with a SLO that's running out the overflow - works great! - can't believe it was so easy.

Tmw (when I can get hold of some drums) I will be making a RFF - (tried it with half a drum but flow was too high) - then that should be sweet.

Made a net frame that goes over the FT - no more suicidal trout! - They are awesome feeders - they'll even have a go at my fingers if I stick my hand in the tank.

@ Chainsaw - my sump is 2000L - have 5000L GB. THe float switch is on and off - built into the pump. There are other ways to aerate - falling water aerates. The RFF is a definite goer.
@Jayendra - didn't have the space for that and was just easier the way I did it - and the physics is the same (or close enough) but the SLO is awesome!

I added a 5000L pump to flow thru the marron tanks to improve flow and circulation of the water.

So now the maximum I can lose if the shit hits the fan is about 3000L (down from 8000L) - And I will still have 5000L in the FT. If the power shuts of I'll lose about 2000L. I reckon that's not too bad in a 12,000L system.

BUT... Have one big problem - I've got sick and dying marron (the yabbies are fine) - pulled one out today - it had rust like infection on it - can anyone help me on this one?

Never rely purely on water flow to create your aeration. One day the water level will be too low to turn on the float switch, what happens then?

I have aeration in each fish tank running 24/7 and I can tell you it has saved my fish.



And to think I was going to put them into the large tank the next day. Just as well all the ones in the adjacent tank survived. And funny a couple of the dyeing fish gave a kick so I thru them into the large tank and they survived.

SO THIS IS HOW I LEARNED MY LESSON, RUN AIR 24/7 FROM A SEPARATE SOURCE.

Marron don't fair well in AP. Theu PH will be softening the exoskeleton and causing disease, this will stress them and then they die.

They don't look very saved Unless for the cats dinner for later.

@Chainsaw -1) I do have 2 lithium battery battery backup aerators. 2) I have the SLO setup so there can't be less than 5000l in the FT. 3) I'm confused as to what you're talking aboug in regards to the float switch - mine is on a separate pump in the sump and is set up to stop the sump overflowing.

@ Charlie - i've had marron in my system over over a yesr with decent growth and almost no losses. What's there favoured ph? Coz the ph here is naturally a big alkaline