Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

sorry, I had to snigger at that one

thanx hex.

it had two good graphs showig bacterial efficiency at ph range too!

Jaymie,
It certainly contains plenty of P

Steve, glad you found the graphs interesting, useful info seems to come from the most unlikely of sources sometimes.

I thought the volume of media they used (1" tube) was incredibly small considering the 430ppm (430mg/L) solution strength.
They must have diluted it to death to get a reading in range of a test strip.
I could envisage a 24/7 very slow drip feed from a reservoir maintaining a constant nitrate production in a fishless system.

No room on my to "do list" for that particular experiment though, must try to get the greenhouse finished this year.

Hi Guys havent had much time to view the site lately (lots going on in my life ). But have had my little system ticking over for a few months now and have run some interesting little expiriments, one being prompted by exactly the same ideas being discussed here.

Some may remember me discussing precipitous ph drops in my system which then led to very high ammonia levels. At the time i had attributed the problem to the huge amounts of wetseason rain entering my system altering the ph and causing the nitrifying bacteria to stop working.

What i didnt mention at the time and failed to fully comprehend due to the coincidental heavy rains was that i had also begun to ad 250ml per day of what shall be henceforth be known as liquid gold(urine).

In the name of science and plain old healthy curiosity ive kept expiimenting and can categorically state that YES the nitrifying bacteria will happily process urine, no lag time to build up different colonies or anything else. In fact their too happy , 250ml put through a gravel biofilter made out of a styrofoam fruit box every second day will in only three days(thats only 2 applications 500ml total ) Raise the nitrate level of 600 litres of totally new water from 0ppm to around 160ppm!!!!

Plant growth is explosive and healthy to asy the least. BUT BUT BUT as we know eventually the nitrifying action of the bacteria acidify the water whic is why we buffer with lime etc. Using liquid gold the ph can drop precipitously as the bacteria are going into hyperdrive. Unless you monitor the ph and have agood amount of buffering materialin the system (i use shell grit) and space out the applications to suit the system needs and the buffering capacity and rate of the system the ph will drop through the floor such is the rate of bacterial nitrification going on.

Having said this, now that i know whats going on, the system is stable, healthy and could support huge amounts of vegetable growth for its size.

Im not going to get into the" but is it safe discussion" Ive done my reading and im happy, get on the net and see what the swiss and others are doing with urine and why in my opinion its the responsible thing to do. Its the ultimate closing the loop , the plants feed us we feed the bacteria the bacteria feeds the plants.

What it means for the APer is Smaller cheaper to run more productive systems and the possability of making AP systems atttainable for those less fortunate or in third world countries.

Cheers TimB
.

Good onya Tim - always knew it would work, yet all I got was people trying to take the piss about my ideas

VB once i knew what was happening it blew me away.
It also means that you dont have to have a direct proportion of grow bed to fish ie less more pampered healthier and happier fish .

Tim - my struggle is always going to be having enough grow-beds to support my fish. Having said this the use of urine to get plants established and growing well while fish may still be small and not producing enough ammonia was one of the reasons for raising this issue.

Fish production is a major desired outcome of my system so urine use may never be something I do to any large extent - but I am happy about the possibilities for others, including those cycling new systems :-). That's some good nitrate production you got.

How did the pubic hair end up in the AP system?
it got pissed off.

Im definatly not trying to get rid of the fish or crays in fact im of the opinion that we still need some solids to provide the trace amounts of nutrients and minerals needed for flowering and fruiting unproven but it seems to be what sets backyard AP apart from large scale commercial systems.

Yep customized systems.

Nice bit of experimenting Tim
To keep the bacteria happy all you`d need to do is emulate the fish based system and have a constant steady input of ammonia to the water (drip feed liquid gold from a reservoir) instead of a huge hit every so often.

You could drink a glass of coke a few hours before "collection" to increase phosphorous content, likewise a banana will boost the potassium content. Any excess vitamins or minerals will be secreted and can be used to advantage
The only thing to be careful of is your salt intake.

I even had a go at quantifying and comparing it to AP:
Assuming 10lbs of fish = 1gm/day of ammonia, the average human generates 2.2gm/litre/day (~2 litres/day total production, unless you can get the wife involved too lol) = 4. 4gms/day

So logically we`re should be worth about 44lbs of fish hehe

How do the sums stand up to your system water/growbed volume?

edit: A few mins on the calculator says your average ammonia concentration would be about 1.83mg/L overall.
So theoretically, you could actually use twice as much!
Most fishless cycling info says to use no more than 5ppm (5mg/L) concentration.

Very interesting info, great you did the experiment to find it out.

Gotta go, have to do some "fishless cycling" if you know what I mean...

I can see it now PP "Peeponics" The all new realm of AP. Set it up in the bathroom on the window. If you have sons they will love to assit in the furtherment of Growing vegtables. Just dont tell the women folk.

And on this topic. If any of you drink Starbucks Coffee you will have encountered the Sulawesi blend. It comes directly from Toraja (my wife is from there as well). The story my wife tell is that as a young child the parents would set a bucket out side the house and tell all the kids to pee in it at nights (so thye did not have to walk to the outhouse). THe adults would later take that pee and water the coffee. MMMM Yummy coffee. It is my favourite coffe to drink though you have to get it in toraja and not the ruined stuff SBs sells.

Tim
Here`s a snippet you might like knowing if you ever plan to use a drip feed system on it.
The chemical bottles that you get in ammonia/nitrite or nitrate test kits deliver 0.1ml per drip, and are quite easy to prise off.
10mm tubing is a good push fit on the smaller bottle nozzle varieties (don`t ask how i know hehe)
If you maintain a constant "water" level you will have a constant drip rate that`s infinitely adjustable via an inline tap feeding the nozzle.

With 8 seconds between drips you`ll put about 1 Litre of "wotsit" into the system evenly over a 24 hour period (0.1mL every 8 seconds)

Could also be useful for anyone needing to add a set amount of liquid to "something" over a given period of time..

Make sure you wash the nozzle well before using it

Interesting thread. I feel compelled to add my research. I tested some fresh urine for ammonia with my new water test kit. none detected. Seems like a great way to get an AP system started with minimal or small fish.