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PostPosted: Dec 1st, '13, 23:21 
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Kangaroodog wrote:
Pull out a older plant and inspect its root ball, you will find worm egg sacks in there, i find heaps, feel bad sometimes pulling plants out


Why not just feed the egg sacks and some of the worms to your fish? It may make you feel better. :)


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PostPosted: Dec 2nd, '13, 00:14 
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bioaquafarm wrote:
RupertofOZ wrote:

You can use the leachate on a soil garden... or more usually added to a compost heap...

But you shouldn't use it on your plants... as they say...

Quote:
you should not use the leachate on your vegetables as it may contain pathogens.



? what pathogens are you actually referring to?
Say who?
Any link to study or research?

this is what I've fund out, and here is the link to the full book in case you whish to add some real info to your knowledge bank...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 7407002273

Worm-bed leachate.

Eight beds (1.5 m by 6.6 m and 1 m deep) were used to obtain worm-bed leachate. Each bed was covered with a plastic sheet to protect the vermicompost against sun and rain. A total bed area of 79 m2 was available. Cow manure was composted thermophilically for two months while mechanically being turned over every 15 days. The composted cow manure, adjusted to 80% moisture content, was placed in the beds to a depth of 0.5 m and earthworms (Eisenia fetida) were added at a rate of 25 g earthworms/kg cow manure or 2.5 kg earthworms m-2 bed. The mixture was left to vermicompost for two months.

Each bed contained a leachate drainage and collection system. Leachate from each bed was collected in a separate 200 l tank, pumped into a central collection 1500 l tank and characterized.

Characteristics of the worm-bed leachate.

The worm-bed leachate was analyzed for total and faecal coliforms (Escherichia coli), Salmonella sp. and Shigella spp. (USEPA, 1999). Salmonella and Shigella were determined by serial dilution.
A sub-sample of 10 ml worm-bed leachate was added to 90 ml 1% peptone solution under sterile conditions and 10-1, 10-2 and 10-3 dilutions were made with sterile 0.8% NaCl solution.
A 100 µl aliquot was plated on two selective media Salmonella-Shigella agar and sulphite-bismuth agar. The second medium is highly specific for Salmonella.
The colonies were identified by form and colour (USEPA, 1999). For the measurement of total and faecal coliforms (E. coli), a 100 µl aliquot of each serial dilution was incubated in lactose broth for at 35ºC for 24 hrs and total coliforms were counted. The faecal coliforms were differentiated from the rest of the coliforms by incubating a 100 µl aliquot of each serial dilution in E. coli medium at 44ºC. Gas production in each assay was considered as positive after 48 hrs. Results were confirmed by plating on eosin methylene blue (EMB) agar, incubating for 24 hrs, and examining for typical coliform colonies (USEPA, 1999).

The worm-bed leachate (mean of three samples collected every 8 weeks) had pH 7.8 ± 0.1, electrolytic conductivity 2.6 ± 0.2 dS/m, 128.3 ± 42.2 mg suspended solids/l; 46 ± 12 mg Na+/l, no detectable NH4+, 834 ± 71 mg K+/l, 59 ± 9 mg Mg2+/l, 84 ± 13 mg Ca2+/l, 130 ± 2 mg Cl-/l, 247 ± 43 mg NO3-/l, 168 ± 11 mg PO43-/l, 47 ± 13 mg SO42-/l.
The fulvic acid concentration was 1.5% and the humic acid 2.4% of the total C content of the worm-bed leachate. As such, the humic to fulvic acid ratio was 1.6.
The electrolytic conductivity of the vermicomposting leachate was low indicating low concentrations of dissolved salts while it contained large amounts of K+, NO3- and PO43-. Considering the above mentioned characteristics, the vermicomposting leachate could easily be used as a fertilizer.

The germination index for tomato was 55 ± 5%. A germination index > 50% indicates that the worm-bed leachate is mature (Alvarez and Grigera, 2005). The worm-bed leachate was free of pathogens, i.e.coliforms (Escherichia coli), Salmonella sp. and Shigella spp.
The reduction of pathogens in the worm-bed leachate could be due at physical and biological factors during vermicomposting (Li et al. 2008).

Somehow I missed this post BAF... Great info... You are a working encyclopedia.. :) I mean it and thanks a bunch for sharing such details.

For the past two weeks, I have been using the leachate on tomato, pepper, sweet potato, egg plants, pudina, etc., as a foliar spray.. 1:10... growth is fabulous and all are green... never saw an yellow leaf except those natural old leaves. Need not be earthworm leachate outcome alone and maybe the results of my other interventions as well helped.

White flies are everywhere on my papaya, banana, and guava trees... I hate them. :evil: They try to attack my AP plants as well... I could see that... I get panic at times but somehow these AP plants are surviving and not showing effects of those white flies... I guess it is the leachate pesticide effect in work. Need more trials but I would like to say that I am overall happy with its application on my plants. Maybe, AP plants are less potent to diseases, at least say 20-30% or more. :dontknow:


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PostPosted: Dec 2nd, '13, 03:32 
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Leachate:

Leachate contains phytotoxins (toxins that can harm plants). Some of these toxins are created by bacteria. Not all bacteria are good in the worm bin or a compost pile.

When a worm farm becomes anaerobic (lack of oxygen) it creates chaos, or when there is too much nitrogen rich food, the good bacteria are at war with the bad bacteria.

Ultimately if you don't keep the conditions right for the good bacteria then they will lose. in any case though, every worm bin has good and bad microbes no matter how well you take care of you worm farm. This is okay of course, as long as the good ones out number the bad ones.

Some leachate can contain harmful pathogens. Landfills always lay down a barrier underneath the compost to keep the leachate from entering into lakes and streams.

When you ad fresh food to the worm bin it starts to break down and goes into a mesophilic process. A mesophile is an organism that thrives in temperatures between 70-104 degrees Fahrenheit.

So the bin heats up quite a bit allowing these organisms to multiply exponentially until it can cool back down. Any temperature above this range would then be called a thermophilic process.

"Thermophiles" begin to multiply between 105-170 degrees Fahrenheit. These are good temperatures to have in a compost pile outside. It kills off harmful pathogens and unwanted seeds.

The worms move through the compost allowing for greater aeration bringing in more oxygen to the compost. This allows the good organisms to thrive, but Generally, during these higher temperatures, the worms stay away from the decaying matter until it has cooled and stabilized enough to allow the worms back in.

This instability is usually accompanied by a smelly or foul odor. This is a great sign that indicates that the bin in that particular area is teaming with the bad organisms until they have a chance to pass through the gut of a worm.

So when you seep water through the bin during these unstable conditions to feed directly to your plants you're gambling with a set of cards you haven't even seen.

http://www.wormfarmingrevealed.com/leac ... m-tea.html


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PostPosted: Dec 2nd, '13, 04:08 
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No one is saying there aren't a lot of beneficial nutrients etc. in leachate. It's the possibility of fecal coliforms in the leachate that is the potential problem. They didn't have any but If you're going to go the route of trying this out, you should probably access the entire book and find out if what you're doing is comparable.

I noticed that there is some further information available online.

http://www.ijsrp.org/research-paper-0313/ijsrp-p15113.pdf

http://www.ejbiotechnology.info/content/vol13/issue2/full/2/


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PostPosted: Dec 2nd, '13, 06:05 
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Speaking for myself, I wouldn't put leachate on anything except the ground. I've been keeping worms for a few years. When I first got interested in a worm bed I began by reading forums, etc. There always seemed to be confusion among posters as to the difference between leachate and worm tea. For clarification purposes, Leachate and Worm Tea are not interchangeable words. They both have much different meanings. Leachate is the nasty, liquidy stuff dripping from a working worm bed. Worm Tea is what is made from the worm castings. I have read where the worms can clean up some pretty nasty stuff, but, the clean(?) stuff is the castings, not what is dripping while the worms do their work.

Maybe everyone is on the same page here, maybe not, but reading the above "paper", I got the impression that everything was pretty tightly controlled as opposed to a working worm bed.

Therefore, in my most unlearned, layman's opinion, the leachate tested very well could be "clean" under controlled circumstances where the worms had second, third, fourth, etc chances to do their magic, where an active, constantly added to worm bed might simply allow the leachate to drip through, bypassing any worm action. So ...... worm tea - maybe, leachate - not in my system.

Just my opinion - I could be wrong.


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PostPosted: Dec 2nd, '13, 06:09 
:headbang:

Every process produces wastes... and the wastes from decomposition processes often contain phytotoxins... the result of some of the more "nasty" bacteria/fungi.... that further process the wastes...

No leachate in my systems either... put it in the compost heap... or diluted on to soil beds where some of the other bacteria/fungi can do their magic.. and extract anything of further value...

Worm tea... yes please... :headbang:


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PostPosted: Dec 4th, '13, 08:06 
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After reading this thread I went to get some red wriggles from the big B - $30 for 500, you have got to be joking!

Being from over east, where you can just find them in the ground....then again I never did justify ap over a dirt vege garden over east either


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PostPosted: Jan 2nd, '14, 09:56 
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I bought them, cherrypicked :)
That was the most expensive 'meat' I ever bought but I have to admit they are heavy feeders and multiply like hell.............in my worm cafe not in the growbeds.
I had to undo one GB and I didn't find one worm in it..........really strange since I put lots of them in there from the worm cafe.
Maybe they don't like to move house ?


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PostPosted: Jan 2nd, '14, 14:41 
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I keep reading that worms find their way into GBs but there is no wormsign in any of my GBs just yet. Perhaps negotiating a sandy desert to get to the GBs at my place is the issue for the worms, but I am surprised that your GB was worm-free despite you populating it with worms, Gran!


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PostPosted: Jan 4th, '14, 18:56 
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The IBC GB was worm-free PLJ, how many are in the big one I don't know, I keep chucking some in since they multiply heavily in the worm cafe. I could get rich selling them :headbang:


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PostPosted: Jan 4th, '14, 22:07 
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No worms Gran? Fish died. Sounds like a common denominator.
Hope the media is ok...


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PostPosted: Jan 5th, '14, 10:27 
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skeggley, bought media at BYAP (chinese), big GB as well and since both, big GB and IBC, had same water cycle I don't see any reason that worms are present in big GB but not in IBC unless the IBC was the culprit. Both parts of that IBC are gone now anyway and will serve eventually as wicking bed.

Quote:
Sounds like a common denominator

.....me???.... :?


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PostPosted: Jan 5th, '14, 10:59 
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Nah not you Gran, the ibc sounds like the culprit.


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PostPosted: Jan 5th, '14, 23:22 

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Are night crawlers bad for aquatic system & grow bed?


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PostPosted: Jan 6th, '14, 00:01 
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It's my understanding Night crawlers are deep burrowing earthworms, which are supposedly not very effective in aquaponic systems. Composting worms are what you want, Red wrigglers in temperate regions, or Blue worms in tropical regions.


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