Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I am sorry but I do not understand what you are talking about. Most of your responses are exactly a hydroponic mindset where you would know EXACTLY what goes into the chemical nutrient.

We are dealing with Aquaponics and not Hydroponics, at least for now.

While I agree one of the drawbacks of natural feed pattern is we can not ascertain exactly how much proteins/fat/carbohydrates/vitamins/minerals content fish get and whether it is a balanced diet, you can not do much on that in a natural feeding regimen. If your fish look happy, you should be happy too on feed.

Do you think fish pellets have everything a fish needs? Are they Organic - 100% chemical free? And, the cost compared to locally available/grown stuff?

Chemical fish feed pellets may fatten the fish and increase the growth rate a bit, but we don't want that in our system mainly because our kids are eating the AP produce. We won't suggest that to our friends too. We wish to keep chemicals away from AP as much as humanely possible, if not 100%.

I can go on and on.. but no change in the current feed pattern, sorry! Let us discuss other relevant things on how to increase stocking density from 4,000 fish to 15,000.

In relation to fish growing.. absolutely not...

Besides my previous hydroponics experience... I spent nearly four years pursuing aquaculture studies and accreditations...


We universally define "aquaponics" as being a combination of "aquaculture" and "hydroponics"...

And then somehow try and pretend it's not.. and to re-invent the wheel... it's pure bullocks...


Natural feed pond based aquaculture has been highly researched for nearly a century... and is soundly based on how much production can be achieved by a naturally provided feed diet...


Absolutely.. again feed formulations have been researched for nearly a century... tailored for specific species needs and growth stages...

They are the fundamental predication for successful commercialisation of aquaculture...



For the most part.. no, certainly not organic... many are actually based on GMO grains... and they contain specific chemical amino acid profiles...minerals and vitamins for optimum fish growth


Well in the end.. that depends on how cost effective any local "stuff" is .. and whether or not it can achieve the same optimal growth rates...


The formulations are based on fish meal, and plant meal components... with some addition of "chemical" additives like vitamins... to simulate the natural "chemicals" they would consume in a "natural" diet...

A lot of "wild caught" fish are more likely to contain harmful "chemicals" these days.. than farmed fish...


I already have... either research RAS design parameters... and suck it and see.. (might only take you a couple of years)... or employ a RAS consultant....

There aren't a lot of good RAS consultants... in any one country.. and even worldwide...

Perhaps that represents the complexity and depth of the knowledge required..


On the other hand... without any real aquaculture, or hydroponics knowledge and/or experience...

Every man and his dog.. or donkey... seems to think they're an "aquaponics" consultant...

Hi Rupert, I am really trying hard to to make you understand the ways of farming fish and livestock. I think you have one way thinking and are unable to grasp and accept other view points and truth. I now suspect that you do not know anything about Aquaponics or fish feeds and you are simply arguing with me for argument sake based on your prejudiced ideas.

Have a look at this document - ftp://ftp.fao.org/fi/CDrom/FAO_Training ... 709e10.htm

There are three types of food used in fish ponds:
natural food;
supplementary feeds;
complete feeds.

The system of production can be defined according to the type of food given to the fish:

extensive: fish production depends entirely on natural food;
semi-intensive: fish production depends on both natural food and supplementary feed; more fish may be reared in the pond;
intensive: fish production depends entirely on complete feed, and the stocking rate no longer depends on food availability but on other factors such as water quality.

If I choose to go by the second option FAO recommends, what is wrong in that?

FAO is a trusted organization in the world and I am learning to follow them. And, what are your credentials to talk about fish feed. It is utterly nonsense.

And, other things that you talk ALL the time in the forums about me and consultancy, etc., are not relevant to the questions I pose in the forums. Why do you want to bring the consultancy topic all the time?

Should we go on? If you have the guts, tell me FAO is all wrong??

Well knock me down with a bloody feather eh...

You'd think that that kind of stuff would be virtually the first thing you'd learn in an aquaculture course.. or blog.. or forum...

Oh wait on... it was the first thing I learnt... in my nearly 4 years of AQAUCULTURE STUDIES


Absolutely nothing... but the level of "natural feed" in your pond.. might not be any where near that in a natural pond..

And when they refer to "supplementary feeding"... they're generally referring to pellet feed.. although it can be other supplements such as moringa, insects, worms etc...

But "more fish" does not mean RAS stocking densities...

RAS.. and associated densities... are intensive fish production...


Because you seem to be continuing on the path of consultancy... and on a large scale project... without any demonstrable knowledge.. other than how to google... and selective read only the bits you want to hear,,, even if there rest that you choose to ignore... or perhaps don't comprehend... is in the same paragraph...

I was literally laughing when you said coconut oil and peanut oil out of sheer ignorance.
You did not know they were oil cakes used in feeds for fish and livestock all over the world.

What did you study nearly 4 years in aqua-cultural studies?

You were again wrong, Rupert. Supplementary feeds are not generally referred to as pellet feed as defined by you and all other pellet factories.

4. Many kinds of materials may be used as supplementary feeds for your fish such as:

terrestrial plants: grasses, legumes, leaves and seeds of leguminous shrubs and trees, fruits, vegetables;
aquatic plants: water hyacinth, water lettuce, duckweed;
small terrestrial animals: earthworms, termites, snails;
aquatic animals: worms, tadpoles, frogs, trash fish;
rice: broken, polishings, bran, hulls;
wheat: middlings, bran;
maize: gluten feed, gluten meal;
Oil/cakes after extraction of oil from seeds of mustard, coconut, groundnut, African palm, cotton, sunflower, soybean;
sugar cane: molasses, filter-press cake, bagasses;
coffee pulp;
cottonseeds;
brewery wastes and yeast;
kitchen wastes;
slaughterhouse wastes: offals, blood, rumen contents;
silkworm pupae;
manure: chicken droppings, pig manure.

More blunders?

No Nanniode.. I am aware of various oils/fats incorporated in fish feeds.. and fish feed compositions...

I had misread your post .. as I admitted....

But most commercial feeds do NOT contain coconut & peanut oil "cakes"... they certainly contain grains and grain oils

You seem convinced that I, or other members here... know very little.. or certainly less than you seem to believe you do...

I have actually been trying to provide you with some information freely... no more...

I consider you both a danger and impediment to both commercial aquaculture and commercial aquaponics.. both within your country.. and generally...

And to your own fish....

Good luck... and my the gods steer any potential investors a long way from your door...

Bravo, bravo... yep.. I could have listed most of those things as well... I could probably have googled the same page...

With your overwealming expansive knowledge Nano... I'm kind of wondering why you've bothered to grace our humble forum...

Other than perhaps to enlighten us as to your brilliance...

Thank you kind sir... I will now withdraw to my peasant ignorance...

Edited : deleted.. just not worth the effort... or the oxygen expenditure...

I learn to respect knowledgeable people. It is preferable to ignorance. Simply asking something instead of "assuming" as if you know all the answers certainly works as for better results and you don't look like a fool... I hope your curse won't lead to knee-jerk changes in the near future. I will certainly update whenever I kill all our fish. Have a nice day!

Remember doing the conversions.. but got side tracked...

Your numbers are wrong...

0.25 pounds/ gallon is not 113grams / litre...

0.25 pounds is 113grams per 3.78541 litres... or 30 grams per litre.... which is about 30kg/m3...

At biomass density... (referring to Eblings paper)... you should be at a max of 1648kg...

Or... 4120 fish @ 400 grams ...

You are already stocked to your limit...

But hey... go right ahead and stock 15,000.. 110kg/m3... if you want...

There seems to be a range of approaches to this sort of situation.

The extremes are:

Ryans: have a quick rant and then keep stum because what more can you say.
Rup: attempt to deal with each and every point systematically despite the ever increasingly apparent evidence of the complete fruitlessness of the endeavour.

While my approach falls between these two extremes I find myself favouring Ryan's approach because if people refuse to learn they can not be taught.

I don't try to have quick rants, I really just don't have time to type out what I would like to say because I am always internetting from my phone.

I try to ignore most of the posts that bother me but sometimes I'm up at 4am reading in a sleepy haze and can't help but respond.

After taking tens of thousands of tech calls over the years, and talking to every sort of person you can imagine... My patience for people that don't listen to facts or known truths has become thin. The difference is that I'm not paid to deal with it now.



Sorry?

It's not worth the energy. I'm spending my time farming and making money, thanks.

Exactly!

Rupert, give them enough rope and they will hang themselves. Save your energy and health for more constructive stuff. It's all pearls for the swines, isn't it?

Stuart, I am sorry.. I tried so hard, so please don't let me be misunderstood. I asked a question by creating a new forum title. I expected feedback and guidance. It usually is a constructive debate and you learn a lot in such scenarios but when one exceed limits and intentionally try to pull legs by nonsensical answers out of ignorance and oft-repeated phrases such as consultancy and I am a failure, etc., from other posts chasing you all the way, people refuse to accept ignorance.

Look at Rupert, please read through our conversations.. While he may look like a master in all other topics, it is clearly evident that he is not at all an authority in AP to talk about feeding or feeding rates in AP. I realized it late though I might have made some bullheaded replies.

Stuart, I am all here to learn from you guys and there is no other motive for me other than learn things to make my AP endeavor successful. I would like to continue to do so unless someone in the mod side tells me I was totally wrong and it is advisable to keep my mouth shut and remain simply as a lurker like most others do.