Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

And can you be certain the Iron is pure? If there is nickle or lead or zinc or other metals mixed in you could be causing leaching of things that could kill the fish.

There are discussions about an RSG filter but trying to do that in such a way that would get you a chelated iron in a form that will remain stable enough to provide much use to your plants without the danger of leaching other non desirable metals into the system........ Probably easier to get some chelated iron that is made for the purpose.

Rupert, thank you for that.

Compared to hydroponics we all want to avoid chemicals in our Aquaponics system. A balanced, self-contained eco system is our goal, IMO.

In our R&D, I am trying to look at several factors before deciding upon additive chemicals such as chelate iron foliar spray or to roots or something else.
- the pH
- gravel/media compaction
- poor drainage/waterlogged
- poor root growth or root injury
- over-fertilization (more fish/less plants)
- Moringa leaves feed that we recently added has the richest source of Iron (check my today's blog on that - http://nanniodeaquaponics.blogspot.in/2 ... nt-as.html)

I was not sure about Ferric (Fe3+) and Ferrous (Fe2+) ions. I read it somewhere that plants use them in both forms. I will need to trace the content and check again.

My plants are not affected at all before/after adding old iron stuff into the biofilter. I am going to keep those for some more time and if any adverse effect is noticed, will certainly remove them immediately.

Hello TC, our messages crossed. I was replying to Rupert and did not notice your message coming in.

Anyway, what I used are some 40-50 years old iron objects. I put them in the bio-filter a month ago, no visible damages so far. Our bio-filter is a large barrel combination swirl and bio filter, so I guess there are plenty of anaerobic bacteria to chelate the irons. Fish and plants look healthy except a few cases of okra plants dying.

PS: Note to moderator - I am sorry this topic should have been in some other subject/title. Can you please help moving it appropriately? Thanks.

Nanniode, feeding fish moringa leaves as a supplement. Genius! The health benefits of a few teaspoons of morina powder a day has been transformative for me, personally. I bet my fish are gonna love it! Thanks for sharing the idea

You are welcome.

Absolutely, fish devour them all in about 18 hours, every bit of it. Start small and increase quantities slowly over 2 weeks. If any leaves are not eaten within 18 hours or so, you are feeding them more.

Your aquaponics system will never be "balanced"... or self contained"....

But don't worry about it... it will grow just fine... with adjustments...

The "iron objects" shouldn't cause any great degree of "damage"... but they'll provide no benefit either... other than perhaps some surface area for bacterial growth...

You should not be getting any "anaerobic" processes in your bio-filter.. or your swirl filter... and such processes are not to be encouraged in a "closed loop" aquaponics system...

If you suspect that anaerobic processes are occurring in your swirl filter... then clean your swirl filter more regularly...


You can provide a degree of iron chelation by anaerobic processes... and you can get a good run down about it in a old thread entitled "A really smart guy"...

Moringa.. the miracle plant.... indeed a common fish feed supplement in Thailand....

You'll find copious amounts of discussion about Moringa scattered amongst threads through the years of the forum... and even a few dedicated threads...

That looks like a big challenge ahead for a natural aquaponic keeper... but enjoying where we are on the way

You have to be careful with that Idea of "self contained".

There are many things your aquaponics system isn't going to be big enough to produce for itself, like;
Sunshine
Air
Electricity to run the pumps
Fish feed (at least while you are also expecting to harvest for for yourself.)

You can't really expect to take produce out of a system if you are NOT putting something back into it. If you are eating the produce, you can't really expect there to be enough produce to also feed the fish and the veggies you are taking out. The most common way to provide the fertilizer to a system is to feed the fish from an outside source, commercial fish feed is usually very easy because it is developed to grow fish flesh and also seems to have most of what is needed to grow plants too with a few exceptions depending on your source water, media and pH.

I'm not saying you can't grow some of your own fish feed, I'm just saying that you probably can't expect to grow your fish feed all within your AP system, especially if you also want to have enough nutrients left over to eat some of the produce yourself.

Could be wrong, but maybe by "self-contained" Nanniode AP meant to refer only to how his farms source electricity and water (not sunlight or air, common guys).

Energy, Water, and Food are the three resource that make up what is commonly referred to as the "FOOD NEXUS." AP is the only method of human-made farming (that I know) that is able to produce more food using a finite (and often -- self-regenerating) source of electricity and water -- which could all be sourced from within.

The electricity and water for my system, like many AP hobbyist, comes form the grid and my hose. I think Nanniode strives to make AP systems that do not need to go outside for water & energy ...by being "self-contained" -- maybe through solar, rain water catchment, being super efficient, etc. In India (where he is working), this is a very important requirement for many farmers in remote villages without working irrigation and/or electricity grid.

If this is what he meant... I'm striving to make my AP system more self-contained, too. Unfortunately, I am broke and it costs alot to install solar (which is the next project on my DIY list). I could do rainwater catchment, but all the systems I've seen are either too costly, too ugly, too big and bulky, or all of the above. Plus, I live in the desert, so payoff in terms of "rain" - not so good. The real problem is, it is just too easy to be lazy here in the US -- land of cheap electricity where my landlord pays the water bill since I live in an apartment complex.

Please explain.... "able to produce more food"... compared to what... and "self-regenerating"... how?

Finite...as in a set supply of water in your tank or electricity in your battery ...having a way to refill through rainwater catchment and solar / wind power would be self-regenerating.

Compared to soil-based agriculture. I suppose hydroponics would fit in the same category as AP in this regard (but AP is still better because plant nutrients are more sustainably sourced as compared to hydro)

There's been much conjecture about that... given the fishmeal content of fish feed is wild catch sourced...

I was really only mentioning the sun, air, water and electricity because they are not being "Contained" produced or generated within the system.

While it might be possible to be very sustainable in your collection of electricity and water, it is not a self contained part of an aquaponics system. Perhaps on a larger farm you might seek to generate electricity by using a digester or something but even then, it would require a really large aquaponics system to provide all the fuel for such a thing.

But primarily I'm talking about the feed source of the aquaponics system. Ya gotta feed the system something if you are going to be taking materials (food) out of the system. You can't expect to harvest fish and veggies from a system where there is no external input either in the form of fish food or other fertilizers to grow the fish food. Creating a balanced fish feed using all home grown ingredients is no simple task (if you want to get food veggie growth as well as healthy fish growth) and I don't believe it is possible to do it all within a small aquaponics system. Other growing methods in addition (meaning out side of the actual aquaponics system and therefore not self contained within the aquaponics) to the aquaponics would be required.

I can accept a self sustainable "ish" whole farm concept. I don't accept when people try to use the "self contained" or "self sustainable" language to describe Aquaponics especially on a relatively small scale because it isn't.

You can try to be a green as you like, just make sure you understand the goals and reasons for what you are doing and check yourself for false economies. Not wanting to purchase chelated iron for instance when you have some free rusty stuff might seem frugal but later when you realize that the plants are not getting the iron they need or you are having to replace fish that are dieing for no visible reason, perhaps spending a little money on something that works without killing fish might not seem so counter productive.

Problem with metal toxicity and fish is that it can take months to reach a critical level and then when the fish start dieing it is really hard to figure out why and they may only die a few at a time and it is likely possible that the metal toxicity will simply leave their immune systems open to other diseases so it may even look like they are dieing of something else but no matter how many times you strip out, sterilize, re-start and fill with fresh water, it eventually comes back if you leave the metals in contact with the water. (There have been people who went through that several times before they finally broke down and lined their metal tanks.) It often takes quite a while for the system even to become acidic enough to leach certain metals into the water, some people who keep the pH really high have kept fish in metal tanks for a very long time without problems but they were not trying to grow veggies at the same time.