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The change came because I posted that our medical issues are just one aspect of an ongoing false-to-facts world we live in, and all those aspects are part of one big picture.

What i originally planned was to show that learning to see the big picture behind the wall of disinformation can lead to all kinds of benefits - actual cures being just one aspect of it.

It went downhill from there.

I think it changed direction, finding its own course in a way, but that doesn't necessarily mean it went down hill. Actually, it covered some quite lofty ground.

Keep us thinking, Journeyman. Keep driving wedges into closed minds.

Maybe it is more I went downhill. I was taught very early to 'believe' stuff but I also got a grounding in Science in days when some teachers were encouraged to get their kids thinking. My disillusionment with belief came early and I have worked for a long time to remove the 'shoulds' & 'shouldn'ts' as well as the false-to-facts I found in myself.

I do understand most people haven't gone through that process, but I get frustrated at the lack of basic understanding of how the world actually works - I mean, we can see it all around us and yet people will believe some dude in a white coat telling them stuff that is patently not the same as how the world actually functions.

And I don't even believe in the world so it gets far more esoteric than this...

For the towers we don't even need physics - just ask why engineers spend months at a time to bring down buildings in the same manner a random collision by 2 planes into buildings built specifically to withstand such impacts managed to do. But wait, there's more. Apparently just being close by to 2 buildings brought down perfectly in their footprints by 2 random strikes by planes can cause the effect to move - WTC 7 was never hit by a plane, but it managed the same feat.

You gotta wonder, how much overpaid are these engineers?

There are at least 7 or 8 cancer cures that, from my initial reading, have passed the basic criteria as evidence. It works, it doesn't require special belief and it is repeatable. Some have been quite thoroughly tested in labs, others have thousands of success cases.

Almost all of them are illegal. Not just not recommended, actively illegal. Practitioners are hounded out of their professions or out of the country. The FDA has mandated some of them as illegal with zero evidence of harmful effects, relying instead on a 'it couldn't possibly help' rationale, yet Monsanto is allowed to routinely introduce substances which have records of being harmful with a justification of 'it's not proven.'

We live in an economy which even the most ardent will tell us, relies upon constant expansion and yet we live on a planet where the resources are limited.

We produce food enough to make sure every person on the planet can eat properly, and we could provide fresh water to every child, but it doesn't happen because it would reduce (almost imperceptibly) the profits of the ultra-rich.

Factories have moved across countries, steadily moving down what I call the 'Slave Ramp' as they keep finding locations where people will work for a pittance, and yet those products are sold at fashionista pricing in the richer countries.

We vote for Governments which everyone knows lie constantly to get our votes and then screw us to the wall as soon as they are in. With only 2 parties able to get into Govt, it is clear that neither actually offers anything different, they just SAY they do. And yet in trying to get people to write 'None of You Bastards' on the ballot paper to send a message, the most common reaction I got was, "I don't want to waste my vote!"

Really? You think your vote for two faces of the same screw-the-people system actually means ANYTHING? Not voting is one thing - the vote in Australia, a compulsory voting country, where you get fined for NOT voting, dropped by 15%. You can bet nobody in Govt will be talking about that.

And if that 15% had turned up and written 'None of You Bastards' on the ballots even the MSM would have had a field day - the pollies would have freaked out that so many people were no longer playing their little game.

So yes, this thread started as a place to post cures or solutions that could help those around us. There are many things we can do to make our world what we think it is, but almost everyone would rather be told WHAT to think and not face the bitter truths - this is not our world and it is not being run for us.

And while it may seem self-evident that the ultra-rich would make decisions in their own best interest, that is only because they have very carefully trained us to think that way. I'm sure Mother Theresa would not have that opinion, nor the Christ, nor the Buddha nor even the man in the street who risks his life in a flood or fire to save the person he would normally barely nod to.

And it is particularly obscene to think that is the natural way in a system loudly touted, and forced at gunpoint down the throats of anyone daring to disagree, as the best system in the world, a DEMOCRACY, where the will of the People, the interests of the People are meant to be the guiding influence over all decisions and processes.

Why is it, do you think, that Medicine is one of the major factors in our world and yet they offer no cures for the very things they work on? Why is it illegal to claim to cure things even when you have the evidence? How is it that in the epitome of 'The Land of the Free' you have to let an insurance company make the decision as to whether or not you can be treated or which treatment you are allowed to have... AND THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE BEST SYSTEM!

Look up Ed Bernays, or read John Taylor Gatto and begin to see why our world is not as it should be.

Sorry i cant read and respond to all of that, but i can understand where you are coming from.
I, like everyone, was also brought up in this society, so i have been trained not to question my parents, etc.
However i was also a fan of marilyn manson - mr. anti everything forced down your throat - and have learned how to question everything and everyone, this is one major reason i dont believe conspiracy theories, when i see people talking of conspiracy theories, especially the moon landing and the twin towers/pentagon all i see if people spouting the same old retoric, as if they are the part of the government that is trying to brainwash people, without knowing it themselves.

I tend to find people who believe one conspiracy theory believe them all, not in a way that makes you think " these people know something", but in a way that makes them look crazy and like they are doing exactly what they are calling others foolish sheep over.

I question conspiracy theories not because i believe anything any government official or corporation PR person says, but because to not question them is to be more of a fool than those who the conspiracy theorists call foolish.

Also because most of the evidence doesnt really stack up - take the twin towers, people go on abot debris falling at the same rate, etc, but it is all hidden in a cloud of dust, you cannot see how fast the building actually falls vs. the debris..... They also discount the fact that many thousands of tons of concrete and steel is heavy and that hot metal is much weaker.

they also go on about "explosions" and the fact that windows blow out, but doscount the fact that concrete explodes under enough pressure, it doesnt crack away nicely, they also discount the fact that when one floor falls ontop of another it creates a huge amount of air pressure below, more than enough to blow windows out....

Just out of curiosity Journeyman... were you home-schooled... or independently schooled?

Nope, State Schools - through to what was called Matric. Had to get scholarships to do it though - or I would have been out at 15 to go earn my money. Scholarships paid enough of the (mis)education fees that my parents could let me keep going.

I did straight Science. Form 6 was Pure Math, Calc & Applied, Physics, Chemistry and English - I wanted to be a Physicist, Nuclear if I could get it, and our Vocational Guidance was a panel of the Matric teachers - 6 wanted me to be a lawyer and 8 wanted me to be a teacher. I joined the PMG as a Telecom Tech Officer trainee. le sigh...

For 30+ years I pored over Science journals, SciAm was a favourite, Nature I would buy whenever something caught my attention and there were others I got reasonably regularly. They were cover-to-cover reads.

They were better in the 70's than they became later. When you find yourself easily able to expand the conclusions, or pose questions not addressed in the experiments, you tend to lose faith.

@Yavimaya - I am not sure I understand your link between those 'spouting' CT's and them being part of the Govt - in the instance of the towers, the Govt is telling one story and the CT'ers a totally different one, and I am sorry but Science is on the side of the CT'ers.

I do understand how you can think once one gets into a CT they all become real, but you're looking from outside. The issue is that the first CT is an entry point, but then others crowd the field - the reason is what I have attempted to present - it is part of a MUCh broader picture, but unfortunately it is one you cannot see in the shadow play on Plato's wall. You have to turn around and look outside the cave for the players and the script to become more clear.

Yes there are plenty of nutters who spout CT's, and who make the subject seem one only frequented by nutters. In fact I have a new Conspiracy Theory - I think it is original with me. I call it the Conspiracy Theory Conspiracy Theory.

I think back in the late 50's and early 60's there were many quite obvious nutters trotted out to claim being part of CT's - most notably in the UFO arena. I think as part of a campaign that has been ongoing for a long time, there were people deliberately seeded into the 'alternate' communities with the intention of polluting anything they might come out with. It worked so well that, no matter what the evidence is, these days all you have to do is mutter 'Conspiracy Theory' and almost everyone backs away slowly, trying hard not to make eye contact.

And so now we can have blindingly obvious Physics being ignored by normally very intelligent people, in favour of believing make-believe tales told by people with many reasons to lie to us. Just utter, "conspiracy theory" and the evidence gets discounted.

The one piece of information that keeps me questioning what i see is something nobody else brings up, and it ISN'T why this happened - follow the money for the answer to that question.

Our power, gas, water, transport and land is being owned, at ever-increasing rates, by Corporations. Our supposed elected representatives froth at the mouth to sell off our assets - if you or I sold something we did not own we go to gaol, el pronto. You will notice that even though these supposed profitless ventures have been sold, you & I didn't see any money come back to us?

Farms held in families for generations are driven to the wall while 'middlemen' make fortunes - prices to consumers keep rising and the farmers get no increases - eventually rising costs drive them out and Corporations buy the land. All the while our mealy-mouth politicians tell us the CPI is 2.x% while they ignore that the 25 items they count for CPI are protected from price increases while everything else doubles or triples in price.

We didn't even get a reduction in our taxes due to the Govt no longer being required to support such unviable entities as the power, gas, water and transport departments. I'm betting nobody out there sees a reduction in their insurance premiums now the Govt in Vic is making all rate payers pay the Fire levy. And I'm betting also we do not see headlines about the BS that insurance companies were paying the fire levy out of premiums in the first place. Last I saw CFA and MFB were being funded from the public purse.

How about putting a tax on diesel because the tariffs on petrol have driven the price so high it became economic for car companies to make diesel engines that could get 70mpg... and the NOT exclude transport!!!. So everything we buy goes up in price, because everything we buy goes on trucks, trains and ships. I cna understand the Govt not wanting a potential cash cow to elude them, but by imposing it on transport as well they got a HUGE windfall and the cost of living jumped significantly.

These are the plays on the cave wall. Trying to get people to turn away from their TV far enough to see the characters controlling the strings in the background is almost impossible - and if they even hear anything you say, you get labelled as a Conspiracy nutter and that in some weird way makes all the physical evidence meaningless.

Cancer, so deadly we get regular reminders about it in the MSM. But cures are banned, curers are prosecuted and persecuted and nobody demands the cures be tested. We pass laws to put fluoride in the water in case our teeth get holes but it is still legal to smoke cigarettes and sell them. Dafuq? Holes in teeth are distinctly non-deadly. But that has to have public money spent on it and deadly cigarettes are a tax-maker?

A bunch of known liars, cheats and bullies make up stories about the climate and everyone believes them. Getting anyone to read the Climategate emails is almost impossible but anyone who dares question AGW is a nutter or paid by oil companies or incompetent.

Never mind that the sceptics are doing Science while the true believers are running computer models. Never mind that actual observations are ridiculed in favour of somehow modelling Chaotic systems on a binary system. Or that people with long-established Science credentials are being called liars by statisticians who can't even do proper statistics.

This is the world we are in, and the bastards are getting away with it because they are very clever at manipulation - if anyone has a time machine, go back and kill Ed Bernays while he is a child. He's easy to find, he is Freud's nephew.

Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they are not after me. Even if I AM a 'conspiracy nutter' it doesn't mean the facts are automatically wrong. Just because Authority tells us something doesn't mean we are allowed to shut off our perceptions and senses - not if we want to keep claiming to be human.

Im not against you at all on any of this "anti-government" or whatever you want to call it sentiment, i am against the physics people throw out there.

The thing that i see most is it is the lowly educated - not meaning you - who push these incorrect physics the most, lets take the moon landing, people whinge that the flag was "flapping", these people dont even realise there is a spring on the flag to unfurl it and to hold it upright in the low gravity/no atmosphere. they simply say "there is no wind on the moon, it cant be right". when you tell them there was a spring, they have no answer.

I am not against learning the truth, im against nutters making crap up and ignoring the fact that they could be wrong.

No it went downhill because forum members found that piles were not terribly interesting (unless you have them).

I am afraid that I take nothing as gospel; even physics I regard as a probability rather than a reality.

BTW did Telstra give you one of those pointless medals when you left and did you ever find a use for it, I would rather have had a carton of beer?

I agree Yavimaya. We all have to be careful both ways: Firstly to be actually willing to listen/read to media sources outside of the mainstream media. Secondly not to be sucked into fringe rubbish. Of course that is a balance you are almost guaranteed to get wrong at times

I see no problem whatsoever with this thread.

Journeyman started this thread and I think has every right to take take it in whichever direction he wishes.

Doesn't mean he get a free ride , he needs to be able to backup with evidence whatever he claims.

Neither do I, but some people get cranky when you talk ill of our great rulers...

We have great rulers....

They are the greatest in the country!

I haven't seen a great ruler... since they started making them out of plastic...