Flu shots...?

nebbian

Interesting graphs:

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/ ... vaxautism/

Rupert, have you come across the data for Japan that shows that after they stopped routinely vaccinating children under two, their infant mortality rates plummeted?

Johny5

Very interesting graphs.

But how many of the ASD had been vaccinated and how many had not.

Why is the data only to 1995 why not to 2012. Remember the formulations are most likely not the same now.

I can show a family where the first child was vaccinated and also developed ASD and the other three children where not vaccinated but also have ASD.

Surely the vaccination of the first child did not effect the others.

The other problem is that ASD back in the era of the 1990`s ASD was only picked up at the same age as the vaccinations where given. These days it is able to be picked up within the first 12 months in some case before vaccinations are given.

So there must be other causes of ASD. Where these other causes taken into account in the data shown.

Me thinks not.

Colours

Bit like arguing religion or politics. My opinion is that our bodies aren't made to have the stuff that is in vaccines in us. If we are well we should be able to fight things like flu and chicken pox. Follow the money trail and you will see that our best interests may not be in the pharma or govt best interests. Etc etc. I was once a development scientist for a company making a new vaccine, and I learnt lots about them.

Having said that risks should be looked at and if you are immunocompromised the benefit may outweigh the risk. I just personally feel uneasy about the world at large being vaccinated against diseases that we are perfectly able to deal with.

Having said that I have immunised my kids and I really don't know if it was the right decision.

RupertofOZ

docscience wrote:

Why won't they do the comparison testing ?
There has not been any true comparison testing done.
They know they can't and won't do.
Surely you must know they won't do.
You wish trust those people, with your heath when they will not do the simple comparison test run by an independent group of people.

Vaccines are almost always subject to clinical trials before they publically released....

And who would you have do the "comparison tests"... and comparing what to what?

Perhaps you could volunteer your unvaccinated infant child... to be put in a sealed lab... filled with Rubella, smallpox, polio, whooping cough.. etc....

And have a separate sealed lab... with volunteered vaccinated infants.... :dontknow:

To say that there's no evidence to suggest that vaccination programs haven't been successful.... is a bit like saying that the sun doesn't come up in the morning...

RupertofOZ

nebbian wrote:

Interesting graphs:

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/ ... vaxautism/

Rupert, have you come across the data for Japan that shows that after they stopped routinely vaccinating children under two, their infant mortality rates plummeted?

No I haven't... but I'll read and dissect the actual papers referred to.... I certainly wont accept the biased diatribe of the site linked itself....

But are you aware... that statistically.... there has been an enormous spike in deaths due to Tsunamis... in Japan... since the introduction of vaccination programs...

Likewise... there's evidence that correlates the increased incidence of nuclear power plant accidents... and solar flare activity... since the introduction of vaccination programs in Japan...

RupertofOZ

I don't get this stuff... I have some sympathy to the concept of not wishing to be dictated to by government...

But there's an almost religious zealotry to a lot of this stuff.... and more worryingly... what seems to be a deliberate attempt to discredit science....

Sadly.. it's usually done by non-scientists... with flawed methodology... flawed data interpretations... and pure pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo...

keith

+1 rupe.. it really is zealotry, albeit political in this discussion

it's impossible to debate someone that refuses to look at facts, or only look at one side of an argument.. i actually used to enjoy debates.. they even used to teach it in school.. now they want to teach creationism.. ugh

RupertofOZ

And here's a classic case of the sort of deliberate distortion of the facts...

In this link (above)... http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/ ... vaxautism/ ... it states...

Quote:

For confirmation of four ways autistic conditions are caused see evidence in statements from pharmaceutical giant Merck’s Vaccines Division current President, by a US Government agency, by the US Federal Court and in formally published academic journal papers - details found here: Vaccination Causes Autism – Say US Government & Merck’s Director of Vaccines ...

Which then directs to an email exchange...

Quote:

If you read nothing else we strongly recommend you read this: PDF Download – Text of email from US HRSA to Sharyl Attkisson of CBS News.

In it the US Health Resources Services Administration [HRSA] state to CBS News reporter Sharyl Attkission

Quote:

We have compensated cases in which children exhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathy may be accompanied by a medical progression of an array of symptoms including autistic behavior, autism, or seizures.” [Text added 10 April 2011]

The email exchange was in relation to several questions posed as to the number of vaccine compensation cases.... in two decades... 1988-2008... a total of 1,322 cases were compensated...

And that number included 611 cases of vaccine related encephalopathy... which in some cases MAY have been "accompanied" by autistic behaviour or autism...

And 711 cases of seizures...

Quote:

Here are the numbers of compensable cases for encephalitis/encephalopathy and seizures in our
database from October 1, 1988 to March 4, 2008.
Encephalitis/Encephalopathy 611
Seizure Disorders 711
Total 1,322

Note...

Quote:

I'm providing both numbers to you, because there's not much difference in the medical history and
outcomes for children that were compensated for "encephalopathy" versus "seizures." Those compensated
for encephalopathy often had seizures as part of their clinical picture, and vice versa.

In relation to the questions posed...

Quote:

1. How many vaccine court cases has the government compensated, been ordered to compensate,
and/or agreed to compensate in which a vaccine-injured child ended up with and/or claimed autism
and/or autistic symptoms? (We know of a number of cases, but have been told it is not a complete
list.)
Please break down these compensations by year.

Quote:

The government has never compensated, nor has it ever been ordered to compensate, any case based
on a determination that autism was actually caused by vaccines. We have compensated cases in
which children exhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathy may be accompanied
by a medical progression of an array of symptoms including autistic behavior, autism, or
seizures.
Some children who have been compensated for vaccine injuries may have shown signs of autism
before the decision to compensate, or may ultimately end up with autism or autistic symptoms, but we
do not track cases on this basis.

Notice how the...

Quote:

The government has never compensated, nor has it ever been ordered to compensate, any case based
on a determination that autism was actually caused by vaccines. We have compensated cases in
which children exhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathy may be accompanied
by a medical progression of an array of symptoms including autistic behavior, autism, or
seizures.

Became....

Quote:

We have compensated cases inwhich children exhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathy may be accompanied by a medical progression of an array of symptoms including autistic behavior, autism, or seizures. [Text added 10 April 2011]

Text added... NO... the important text... the first part.. was conveniently.... REMOVED...

Nothing... absolutely nothing... in that email response... suggests.. or proves... that the vaccine CAUSES autism....

It volunterially compensates cases that show some signs of "autism", along with other conditions.. such as strokes... as a result of "rare"... reaction to the vaccine...

And the total cases... in 20 years.... is 1,322..... out of how many MILLIONS of vaccinations???

keith

critical thinking is becoming a lost art

RupertofOZ

I'll get back on the rest... if I can be bothered...

So far... I doubt that it would be worth it... or likely to enlighten those that choose to be selectively blind(ed)...

RupertofOZ

keith wrote:

critical thinking is becoming a lost art

Critical thinking... requires firstly.. that you think... and dissect...

There's a difference in "critiquing" something... and "criticising" something...

Criticism... doesn't necessarily involve any thought whatsoever...

seamonkey

Flu i am not convinced as i know by the time you get vaccinated the next strain is about and has mutated.Survival of the fittest here. All other vaccines are essential.

RupertofOZ

Fair comment....

docscience

Johny5

I would be interested in reading or finding out about more information about this case you mention about the ASD.

nebbian

So Rupert,

About the Japanese govt decision to stop immunising before age 2, and the decline in SIDS afterwards...

What are your thoughts on this?

(No link provided, so that attention isn't distracted by irrelevancies)

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Flu shots...?

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