Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hi all,
I have finally convinced my wife that an AP system is the way to go, and in two weeks have done nothing but read the BYAP website resources and this forum, and before finding this site, every other AP site i could find.

After being totally confused by the concept of a sump, i came across samuelljackon's query about same, and thought i was converted.

I went to BYAP on the weekend and spoke at length to the helpful Joel, and inevitably came to the question of sumps;his reply was to not bother as they just create another fail point. He also said to put marron into a separate tank, not hooked into the system. That shot me down, and has confused me slightly.

Can the combined experience here put me on the right track here, as, although i totally believe he was telling me the truth, i was all ready to build an IBC system to start with (with the intention of eventually turning it into an aquatic engineering marvel) with sump, and i can't quite let it go(yet) .

I am still getting bits and pieces together, so have no pics to show.

In my eyes there is only 2 reasons to incorporate a sump.. and that is to either set your grow beds lower to the ground, aka CHIFT PIST. -OR- to provide a separate water body for species separation.

Joel's answer would have been around the KISS principle. A simple FT that pumps to a grow bed(s) and returns to Ft is removing a multitude of fail points. In most cases a sump just isnt required and adds complexity that isnt needed.

Thanks Charlie,

In terms of having marron as part of the system, will they just be happy to live at the bottom of the tank, or should they be in a separate unconnected tank as suggested? This is the bit which I am also confused about given that if separate, they would need their own pump etc, yet most of the info I have found so far reckons they can be incorporated into the main system.

Cheers.

Sumps have other purposes as well:
- they are a thermal mass that can even out the temp changes caused by volatile weather.
- they can provide protection against overflows. a GB holds up to hundreds of litres of water - if the pump shuts down you could have those extra litres all back in your FT at once.
- they can allow you to run 2 systems with one pump, so your separate marron tank becomes a feasible option.
- they can be used to provide extra aeration for the system.

Plus as mentioned above, there's the Constant Height for the FT as well as the back-friendly level for GB's - big considerations actually.

A FT --> GB is simple and an easy way to learn the ropes, but those 'fail points' are also part of having a more complex system that allows other possibilities.

Some more reasons why people add sumps : the volume of water required to flood the GBs doesn't leave enough water in the FT for the fish, or, a greater volume of water is required to provide thermal stability and other properties associated with larger volumes of water, such as dilution.

If you're building a single IBC system with the GB cut at about 300L and the FT at about 700L (less ullage) then you wont need a sump; when the GB is flooded, requiring about 120L of water, there will still be 500+L in the FT which is ample for the duration of the flood cycle. If you're building a system with 2 IBCs where one whole IBC is the FT and the other is cut into two GBs, then you MAY need a sump as there might not be enough water in the FT to flood both beds simultaneously, depending on how the GBs are cut, but this decision will also be dependent on how many fish you intend stocking and introduces other limiting factors such as space.

Draw a detailed plan of your system, making sure to show where all of your water is at all times during your intended pumping regime, this will indicate if you need a sump or not. Sumps may not be absolutely required in a constant flow/flood system, but having somewhere to drain water into will come in handy so should be incorporated into your design if you don't want to send that water to waste.

As for keeping marron in the main FT, I'll leave others more knowledgeable on the subject to answer that...

Keeping marron in with your fish isnt a straight cut answer sorry. It can be done if you know what your doing but they are better kept seperate. Ive had marron in with my fish for over a year now but Ive lost a lot along the way. I also have a friend that has been trying for about 3 years and he also has experienced a lot of problems.

Yabbies are a better choice if you want something in your tank. Bit more hardier and have higher tolerences.

You wouldn't have spoken to me.. Must have been Nat, I'm not that young and/or slim...

ok, that was the name on the receipt, so kinda went out on a limb that that was who I was talking to

Feel a bit embarrassed now.

Journeyman and bunson, thanks for the extra tips. Still keeping an eye out IBCs on the $50-$75 range (missed a batch at the beginning of last week sadly), so when they come up again I will probably end up with a couple.

In terms of keeping marron, I am happy to give it a go (will aim for separate tank though) especially given the kudos I will get with the in-laws if I can plate them up from time to time.

I like having a sump, aside from the aforementioned pros, because I can completely mix/dissolve any supplements, PH buffers, or other additions equally into a substantial body of water before pumping it throughout the system. Plumbing a bypass back to the sump and having shut off valves on the in-lines to the FTs allows this.

J.B.

There is no point building one system if you want another. So if you want a system with a sump then add a sump. That is a valid reason for a sump.

Another one is if for some reason you can't get your grow beds higher then your fishtank.

But you don't have to have one and often its best to avoid them I have seen sump tanks cause more problems then they fix.


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Cheers nat for validating my convictions

I think, however, I may remain sumpless for the time being. If I can eliminate fail points, I may as well save myself some effort. Looking at mermbers' posts over time, many people seem to 'refresh' their systems over time, so I will revisit my plans down the track.

Thanks again to all.

I would like to know about all these problems that Sumps cause. I have three dfferent systems all have Sumps operating for the last 4 years and would like to be on top of a problem before it arises.

I have sumps for 2 reasons:
1. I had a concrete slab and coudn't make the growbeds low enough for a full IBC fish tank.
2. I had 3 IBC's and it was the best use of space to have 2x growbeds 2x sumps 1x full IBC fish tank