Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

You asked a question, I answered it. Your question was direct, my answer was direct. You tried to misrepresent my position because you are (apparently) unwilling to consider that water comes in different qualities (odd considering your job).


Your claim that aquaponics is inherently better for water use. I'm fairly sure it is, but you have neglected the issue of water quality. You can dance around the issue however you like, but you have not addressed my original point, which is that commercial agriculture works to a budget and to a supply system. Aquaponics has not yet demonstrated it can do the same - otherwise aquaponics would be standard operating procedure.

Compare no-till farming - once the benefits were estabilished farmers rapidly switched over.

I don't doubt that flood irrigation is a bad idea, but you a) are trying to set up a false dichotomy, and b) are ignoring all the other issues like embodied energy in the distribution system. Janet insightfully points out that in the real world we must make complex tradeoffs between costs. Farmers aren't stupid and with the current water pricing system, flood irrigation is the best choice for them (or at least, that is the (bayesian) belief).



I never said you were doing anything unethical, again you wish to read into my posts something which isn't there.



I don't like people leaving out terms in their economic equation - it leads to stupid decisions like the current water restrictions, road funding or the proposed banning of incandescents. In the long run mis-representing something will hurt people more than being blunt about the truth. If you can't deal with the truth (and thus do things like moving this thread) perhaps you should move into marketing or something?



Hehe, you've used that card up already

You seem to be mixing up economically viable with environmentally sustainable.

Good catch! I was assuming that farmers would choose the option which would maximise future value (and hence would be sustainable) - the rational model. But of course, the evidence is that they don't (especially shareholder owner farms). It is, however, true of all the farmers I know personally - many of which are closely interested in things like permaculture, aquaponics and reduced chemical farming (hence some employing me and Lynne to suggest sustainable approaches to managing their land).

In the long run we can not separate economically sustainable (viable) from environmentally sustainable, but in the short term the two are clearly only loosely connected.

I suspect many farmers are dubious of new approaches such as aquaponics because the credulous farmers are all long out of business due to the miracles of yesteryear. That makes it all the more important to show that AP is fundamentally more robust economically and environmentally than other farming techniques - the point of this discussion!

I stand corrected.

SAy, njh, what exactly IS your job description? I dont think I have read what it is...

Oh, I'm at a cross road in my life: I've been offered a research scientist position in the US, I just got back from a job interview at google, but I decided that that wasn't something I wanted to do and I'm in early stages for a systems design position in Ireland. So my current employment situation is a choice between three futures (stay in Melbourne, move to the US or move to Ireland). What am I going to do with my fish?!!!

My job description might be consulting systems designer, programmer, mathematician, or something. Generally I just have a constant trickle of random work. I've also worked as a musician and a landscape designer

hmmm, varied indeed...
Do the american thing, the cost of living is lower there than in Ireland (I know this for a fact) - AND you would be alowed to experiment with all sorts of new fish there - as for your fish now, EAT THEM
If you dont like america, you could always come back and do something else (as it sounds like you have no worries finding work )

what's your instrument NJH?

Yeah, I'd heard this. Most likely we'll be moving to colorado (in part because want to try a different climate .



I'm hoping, in the least, to see Doug Basberg's system in person as it looks very interesting.



They're too small. But we've got a number of potential housesitters lined up, all of whom want to keep fish. In the worst case I'll give them to aeldric.



Exactly, which is why we're keeping our house (also, US dollars pay of mortgages quicker

VB: Piano and organ (though I played flute in several bands when I was younger).

Flute heh - did you ever go to band camp

one time, at band camp....
(sorry, I could not resist )

Hehe

does the "bed" flute count?...played mostly in a high C?

Nathan, if you're going to be in Colorado, you can check out the Colorado Gator Farm. Geothermal hot springs, tilapia and alligators. Here's a blurb.

http://www.state.co.us/oemc/programs/re ... r_farm.htm

Most farmers I know (and that is a fair few) are concerned about the future sustainability of their land. They want to leave something for their kids that, should they choose to continue farming (that is another discussion for another time), they will be able to do so.


Flood irrigation is not the most efficient method around, but is still used for various reasons, some of which are cost and some are for land type/location reasons. More saline water can be used with flood irrigation than with sprinklers (less plant burn from the salt and more water used to wash it away from the root zone) which is another consideration. Flood is still one of the cheapest methods to setup (this includes clay lined channels and laser levelled bays), with subsurface drip being the ideal, but very expensive.

Nathan, as for the question I asked earlier about potable water, I know see what you where getting at. Your meant treated water (fluorine, chlorine etc) instead of untreated river/bore water. That makes more sense.

Nova

Nova - yep, we're on the same wavelength. I agree that most farmers are concerned about the land (contray to the viewpoint held by many city folk).



Exactly, not just fluorine and chlorine, but also lots of filtration, floculation and sterilsation. All of which are unnecessary for irrigation.

Boom spray irrigation is certainly less useful with high salt soils because of the high evaporation (peter andrews says 60ppm rain water becomes 600ppm river water becomes 6000ppm spray).