Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Well said

Once again a thread has been turned into a political push for the far right wingers to whinge and moan about how everything is being stolen from them... Honestly guys, I've had enough... !

This is not a place for the same old crap to come up over and over again.... Yes I get your points of view, you have repeated them many times in many threads, and guess what, I disagree strongly with your points of view. But this discussion is not meant to be a rant about your political views and that's what it has digressed into. Find somewhere else to push that shit.

That shit was started by one of your left wing government dependents. And guess what I disagree strongly with you points of view. I do agree, I have had enough also. Glad I don't live in such a nanny state.

no, this shit was started by me, and I'm ending it.... Now...... You don't like it, find something else to do.

Want to see who turned it political here you go. SolTun

SolTun
Post subject: Re: Boycot coke.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:13 am
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Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend

Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:16 am
Posts: 342
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Are you human?: yes
Location: S Norway
SuperVeg wrote:
If the government makes you pay something, it is a tax.
So in some cases it might be a tax, in other cases it might be a refund initiated by the company.

Council rates is a tax, you can call them rates all you like, but they are not voluntary so they are a tax.


I have no problem with the idea of a bottle refund, it might even work (haven't seen any proof yet, it has only been claimed)
I just have a problem with people/companies getting ever more taxes, which consumers always end up paying.
Even if every bottle is returned, there is still all the additional cost of the collection, storage and recycling (if that actually happens) of the bottles, all (or part) paid for by other taxes.

Aluminium is the only thing actually worth recycling isn't it ?


No glass botlles actualy works best, because they are cleaned and reused instead of new produced, so in the long run it makes the product cheaper for the consumers do to lower over all manufacturing costs.
Thaats why Scweeps in the late 1700 introduced a bottle refund on their botlles.

Aluminum is also working at the moment because of the currant high price on aluminum raw material it's cheaper to recycle used aluminum cans.
Here in Norway it ads to the overall price to the consumers with aluminum cans because the used cans are shiped to france for remanufacturing compared to glass botlles, but that is the price we (consumers) have to pay for "free trade" agreements.

You don't have to look fare to see if return works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_ ... egislation

Switzerland one of your other favorit countrys have a law saying unless 75% of the cans,botlles etc is returned there will be put a specific return price on the containers.
It works but it's not "free of any charge" to make the wolunter return system runing, it's just not spesifically priced but rather incorporated in the generall garbage handeling regime.
Is that a fair system ? everybody pays for the handeling of drinking containers wether you buy it or not?

And forget about the dead duck in the opening post thats just a symbol

Hi Hellom I see you are generally opposed to anything governemental I can respect that, I must admit that I lost respect when you oppenly admited that you would cheet the terrible system though.
You would arange for your wife to recive health care in one state outside of a seceeded Texas, I sort of lost the respect at that point, no problem with reciving only contributing.
That shows no/low etics or moral IMHO

cheers

Cool and I have no issue with you starting any thread. It only turned political after I was basically attacked. We had a decent discussion going until someone started the attacks such as lost respect for, and redneck and so on.

No, shut up now.......!!!!!!!!

Don't tell me to shut up. This will probably get me banned , but you shut up. I was talking to you in a normal manner. That was not needed. In fact I never talked to you in a bad manner to deserve that.

I'm going to open this thread back up again (I locked it for a while), because you know what? It's my thread that I started about something that I feel passionately about, and it's my forum.. And I'm not going to be pushed out and have it turn to crap by a minority of extreme opinions.

You guys get a pretty damn good say at whatever you want on this forum but no more politics on this thread.. You don't like the idea of of a bottle deposit scheme? Fine you've said that, now move onto another topic and lets all play nicely...

Far be it from me to horn in on the political side - I've been in quite enugh internet debates, and probably in various guises, on both sides of this argument.

I think Capitalism, like Communism, has failed - the massive efforts currently to prop it all up should show us that. The underlying presumptions should show us it is about to crash and burn us all.

BUT, to talk about the topic is another matter. A few years back I used to go to the mall, shopping centre etc. and often as not, have tog et out of the car and move shopping trolleys so I could park. Now it is very rare to see - the difference is you pay a deposit of $1 or $2 to take your cart from the rack and almost everyone takes it back to get their deposit. When I do see the wayward trolleys it is almost always the companies that don't charge a deposit to get the trolley.

By scattering return bays around the carparks the companies have made sure nobody has to walk too far to get their deposit, but they DO have to reconnect the trolley to the rack.

Years ago, we had deposits on soft drink bottles - as kids we would go round them up and take them to the milk bar for pocket money. Often this involved knocking on doors to ask if they had any we could take back. Rarely did we find them laying around but when we did it was with eagerness we'd collect them.

In our current high inflation times, I think I'd make it more than 5c or 10c - people would feel OK with discarding that amount. Not sure what most would think but I'd make it $1 a bottle. The soft drink delivery would include pick up and either discount or refund to the shop for all bottles returned.

I doubt it can be called a tax because the Govt ain't getting any - the shop owner adds $1 to the rpice and pays for the bottles on return. If I was Coke or any of the other companies I'd invest in a secure cage like they have for gas bottles and donate it to my clients - it would help shop owners maintain security over the bottles (it wasn't unknown for kids to go over a fence at night and collect bottles from back of the shop to get refunds on the next day) and help with brand loyalty.

@ - the personal stuff. I know it is difficult but if someone offends you, don't escalate the flame/troll war, don't try to tackle them in posts, just click the ! button (bottom right of each post) and report them. Joel and the Mods will see the report and come sort things out, and it makes things a LOT easier for them if there is only the one person flaming or trolling and they don't have to track back through posts to find out who said what first.

It also makes it easier for them to stay on top of stuff - if they don't visit a thread for a while there can be escalation to full on war before they arrive - Reports call their attention to things as they happen.

I will play nicely.

We have the container deposit system here in South Australia and it works great.

I also found this and it night help some understand.

Step 1 Beverage Filler
Wholesaler supplies to retailers. The 10 cent deposit and an agreed handling fee is included in the wholesale price of the beverage.

The deposit and handling fee is retained by the beverage filler or their agent who operates as the collection co-ordinator. This is held until the deposit containers are returned to them to be recycled.


Step 2 Retailer (Hotels, Delicatessens, Supermarkets etc)
Supply consumers. The 10 cent deposit and handling fee is included in the retail price paid by the consumer for the beverage.

Step 3 Consumer (or community groups)
Return deposit containers to recycling depot for full payment, 10 cent deposit.

Step 4 Recycling Depot
Sort the containers by material and responsible agent, ie. Glass, aluminium, PET, into containers for return to the collection co-ordinators.

Marine Stores Pty Ltd Lion Nathan / SA Brewing, Coopers and CUB products

Statewide Recycling Coca Cola, Schweppes, and companies marketing a wide range of boutique beers, spring waters etc. (cans, PET and non refillable glass containers)


Cans - Back to Marine Stores Pty Ltd


Glass - Broken up, and cullet sent to Beneficiation Plant.


Glass - Culleted and delivered to the Beneficiation Plan


Cans, PET, liquid paperboard , other plastics and steel cans back to Statewide Recycling the collection co-ordinator

Collection Co-ordinator

Once containers are sorted, they are sent back to the collection co-ordinator, agent for the recycling of material and auditing.

Collection co-ordinators are:

Statewide Recycling
Flagcan Distributors
Visy Recycling (Non Operative)
Marine Stores Pty Ltd


Collection co-ordiantors pay the Recycling depot back the 5 cent deposits which they paid out to the consumer in step 3, plus an agreed handling fee.

The value of the returned material partially offsets the cost of handling fees and transport.

We must not forget that every consumer is entitled to the full deposit refund.

Note:

The co-ordinator receives the deposits and handling fees which it reimburses to depots from the various fillers/distributors. These monies are based on an agreed rate which is presently current return rates, and includes the co-ordinators auditing fees and a profit allowance. The balance of the deposits and handling fees built into the price by these fillers/distributors of product placed in the market, is retained by them and generally used to keep prices at a minimum.

See http://www.recyclesa.com.au/

I have to agree with everything JM has said above, although im not a fan of "dobbing", simply because too many reports over small issues gets people banned when they dont deserve it.
Imagine if someone got reported for every little comment that people thought was rude or took offence too, Rupert wouldnt be here.... then there would be no knowledge here....

Someone new Johny5

We have tried to get it in WA for a while, without success. The only difficulties I can see are some people in remoter towns getting their 10c back; how is that being handled in SA?

New, but not that new.

Interesting point about remoteness. I am not sure what they do about it. It seems that it is mostly the Scout centers that collect the returns here. So they might do it in the country as well.

Sorry mate, my eyes are crap, I read the images as posts and wondered why it was still 0.