Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Its going to take me a while to read that Rupert
I will admit I was wrong I can't even figure out how they can carry out experiments on pure water or at this point work out the stability (relating to time and temperature variations etc) these structures have.

Take a look at the first link I gave - it gives a method for determining space between the molecules. Determining angles would be more problematic but I would think a laser of the correct frequency would give indication of angles.

Yes, water is complex on an atomic and intermolecular level due to its geometry and charge distribution. But swirling it does not imbue it with mystical properties. People insisting otherwise are selling mystical water and/or the means of making it.

No. Just, no.

If swirling or "agitation" makes magic water, then wouldnt that be all the water on the planet?

Not sure what degree of stabilty there is Sleepe... or what factors determine any degree of stability...

Most water related chemistries... are pretty weak associate/dissassociate type bonds...

You could say that water... is pretty fluid...

And I'm definitely not sold on the "stirring" thingy...

Could they be referring to DO? Agitating the water would alter the DO and provide perhaps a better experience? Also, there are negative ions - not sure if that's a good thing in water but there is plenty of evidence that they are a benefit in air.

Possibly stirring the water helps homogenise it? Helps break up some of the structures maybe...

Just making guesses here...

Correct, and the thing about weak bonds is that they very (very!) rapidly form and break at standard temperature and pressure. So you get some complex intermolecular networks, but a zillion come and go in an eyeblink.

Just do some googling and check the crazy level out there. I don't think you'd be as willing to extend the benefit of the doubt...

The difficulty I am having Journeyman is with the test equipment. It would have to be pure water, at a constant temperature, degassed and then what happens when you try to measure it and with what that does not apply energy. Also the bonding I can understand its the stability of those bonds I am also having trouble with.

Its all very well to say water molecules form a number of bonded shapes but how long do they last in the real world.

Not usre Sleepe. But would you want the water denatured? Surely what you would want to be testing is water in a natural state? I'm not sure it can be degassed either - some of the structures are similar to the ice structures that trap gas, which is what is measured in ice samples.

It is interesting that something so essential is so unknown though.

But see in Australia wouldn't the water be swirled the opposite way than others. So maybe yours just de activates there

Thats a very good point.

Ill make sure the water i buy is from Aus, i would hate to undo all thier good work, especially if the swirling is required to be done by hand.

Probably about as long as it take a Tachyon to travel across a football field...