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PostPosted: Feb 25th, '13, 18:24 
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Journeyman wrote:
Couple of thoughts - if you want the waterfall and you're concerned about the clogging, put it after the GB's - if you have the system tuned right the water coming from the GB's will be clean. Or you could add a swirl or radial solids filter to make sure it is clog-free.

Could you perhaps cover an area to the side for the feature? This would remove direct sunlight from your feature without affecting the system itself. A series of pools, perhaps with high sides and a spout and you could have a variety of habitats or materials in the bowls and a small waterfall between each bowl.

Also, you're worried about heat but you would like to run barra? I'd say you've got opportunity right there. You might need to put your feature under a glass or polycarb canopy to reduce evapouration loss but why not use the feature to warm the water for your barra?

Oversize your pump and run some of the water back to the FT to generate the current you want and you have warm, clean, running water, a feature for the missus, fresh veggies and herbs and barra.

The cover over the feature would help ensure the temps stay up a bit in winter too.


All good thoughts, might need the swirl rather than just expecting to get it perfectly tuned on my first AP attempt. Figure it's safe to assume I'm not that good!!!!

Pools and spouts could make a nice feature, probably too shallow for any vege planting but that would certainly fix some of the heating issue, maybe getting complicated but I will see how I go. Glass cover I spose Will need to make it removable to clean... Can't very well go with a bleach and scrubber any more!

Barra barra barra!!!!!mmmmmmm but how hot is too hot? Was thinking of avoiding them as a friend said they didn't taste as well due to lack of current so over sizing to create a current will help with their muscle?
bulk will it?


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PostPosted: Feb 25th, '13, 18:47 
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Sleepe wrote:
Ask her indoors what she regards as a water feature and then we can go from there. :)

I would not downsize on the FT and with the measurements you have, you will only get one GB from an IBC on the shed side and it will have to float ie three supports. There again you have room enough on the shed side to put a smallish sump under the IBC. I would go continuous flow (more water in the system) and you could possibly divert some of the water to an NFT across what is left of the back of your FT (approx 700-750mm) to grow fancy lettuce/ herbs.


I guess I was trying to get towards the 2:1 gb:ft ratio I had seen around the place, though I am not too stressed about maximising output rather minimising total failures on my first attempt. It seems like I can play with fish densities and feed rates to control things at a different ratio.
Will need to spend some time looking at NFT, not sure about the benefits/problems. More reading required!!! I think learning one technique first and adding in more bits might be for later?

I thought a flood drain setup was going to be an easier initial setup but could be wrong.

I wonder if its possible to cut an ibc, overlap it and resilicone it up again to make is narrower so I can still fit 2 beds up top, probably allota work for little gain.

Thanks to all for the feedback, it is much appreciated


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PostPosted: Feb 25th, '13, 19:01 
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Obelix wrote:
All good thoughts, might need the swirl rather than just expecting to get it perfectly tuned on my first AP attempt. Figure it's safe to assume I'm not that good!!!!

Pools and spouts could make a nice feature, probably too shallow for any vege planting but that would certainly fix some of the heating issue, maybe getting complicated but I will see how I go. Glass cover I spose Will need to make it removable to clean... Can't very well go with a bleach and scrubber any more!

Barra barra barra!!!!!mmmmmmm but how hot is too hot? Was thinking of avoiding them as a friend said they didn't taste as well due to lack of current so over sizing to create a current will help with their muscle?
bulk will it?

Rule One: In spite of the prevailing on site winds, go for resilience. Add all the filter you can find. Paul on Earthan Group has good estimates for systems similar to what you are planning. Go for a solids filter and a bio filter - better balance and leaves some bio for the GB's.

How about this for an idea - raise your barra in your system and when they get to eating size, transfer them over to a salt system with high flow. From what I understand it is the salt cycle that gives both salmonids and barra their extra flavour.

EDIT: for smelling pistakes... :D


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PostPosted: Feb 25th, '13, 20:18 
My salmoniods taste jsut fine... and I can always salt them once they're cooked... :lol:


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PostPosted: Feb 25th, '13, 20:43 
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Yeah... but most trout are MEANT to be fresh water, Salmon are a different frypan of fish. Also I have heard Barra taste better with a salt water stint.


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PostPosted: Feb 25th, '13, 21:40 
I've often heard it said... that freshwater fish benefit from being purged with salt...

And marine fish.. with freshwater....

P.S.. trout are a salmoniod.. and in natural (open) systems... go seaward for a period of time... before returning to freshwater...


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PostPosted: Feb 25th, '13, 23:10 
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So the dad in me is thinking... now now children!!!

But... the logic for me with a salt water/freshwater purge seems sounds, however unless you have eaten both, from the same system, with the same set of lifespan conditions, compared directly side by side purged/non purged fish it would be impossible to compare.
So it seems, fish (purged/not purged/ salty/current etc all taste good.


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PostPosted: Feb 26th, '13, 01:54 
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My friend is the son of a brick layer... and so, he built a 'volcanic waterfall' in the back yard. It is roughly 8' tall, the pond is 40" at its deepest, and sports a 12" shelf around for potted reeds in the summer as added bio filter. He has not yet turned this into an AP feature... it was originally built to mask the freeway sounds when it went in. Only goldies and a few pleco to keep the algae down, and they winter indoors. The goldies have survives 24 years... bred, on their own...

The foot print is roughly 8' x 12', he curved the front around the pond, so one can sit and feed fish, or just sit. He has done to math, and believes he's got roughly 300 gal in the system. He runs his pump roughly an hour a day. It cascades down the 'pots' of volcanic rock and across a couple of strategic 'shelves' that cast the water into the pool at varying rates.

As a water feature-- do whatever you like... or what your space can bear. At present, his pot areas have held ornament-als, but there isn't any reason he couldn't utilize his flow for AP.


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PostPosted: Feb 26th, '13, 08:38 
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dancinhrblady wrote:
My friend is the son of a brick layer... and so, he built a 'volcanic waterfall' in the back yard. It is roughly 8' tall, the pond is 40" at its deepest, and sports a 12" shelf around for potted reeds in the summer as added bio filter. He has not yet turned this into an AP feature... it was originally built to mask the freeway sounds when it went in. Only goldies and a few pleco to keep the algae down, and they winter indoors. The goldies have survives 24 years... bred, on their own...

The foot print is roughly 8' x 12', he curved the front around the pond, so one can sit and feed fish, or just sit. He has done to math, and believes he's got roughly 300 gal in the system. He runs his pump roughly an hour a day. It cascades down the 'pots' of volcanic rock and across a couple of strategic 'shelves' that cast the water into the pool at varying rates.

As a water feature-- do whatever you like... or what your space can bear. At present, his pot areas have held ornament-als, but there isn't any reason he couldn't utilize his flow for AP.


Pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking, I WANNA SEE THE PICTURE, sounds really nice!!!
Hoping you can get a pic to post for us all :headbang:


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PostPosted: Feb 27th, '13, 09:22 
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Hmm starting to think I am over complicating the system, so to simplify, assuming I can i not simply use ft -> pump-> gb x2 -> fd siphon -> drain pipe, open by cutting top off pipe over pond between gb's with a few slots to waterfall. Using some flow from oversize pump to circulate water in ft?

Not really sure if gb's will act fully as my bio filter? And I can't get a handle on if I need a sump or not, pressurised after ft, higher or lower etc. been reading through some of the threads you guys suggested. Full of info but now I feel confused by the basics!!! Bloody noobies!


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PostPosted: Feb 27th, '13, 11:17 
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I think first thing you should do is properly calculate how much water your FT will hold. An IBC holds 1000l its 1mx1mx1m (usually). I doubt with the sizes you quoted on page 1 you could have that, from memory the internals were 1200x400x? with ? being depth (try to be realistic about that one) :)
A sump allows you to put the pump there and increases your total water capacity, so does continuous flood of the GB. The media in the bed determines your biofiltration, you could up that by ditching the sump and putting a biofilter in its place. ( an interesting thought might be the pump in the biofilter :) )
If you have never kept fish or grown vegies this way (a) don't overstock with fish that wont run all year (b) start with the simplest most foolproof system.
Have a look at EB's balcony system and realise this is wider than what you're planning.


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PostPosted: Feb 27th, '13, 14:05 
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Sleepe wrote:
I think first thing you should do is properly calculate how much water your FT will hold. An IBC holds 1000l its 1mx1mx1m (usually). I doubt with the sizes you quoted on page 1 you could have that, from memory the internals were 1200x400x? with ? being depth (try to be realistic about that one) :)
A sump allows you to put the pump there and increases your total water capacity, so does continuous flood of the GB. The media in the bed determines your biofiltration, you could up that by ditching the sump and putting a biofilter in its place. ( an interesting thought might be the pump in the biofilter :) )
If you have never kept fish or grown vegies this way (a) don't overstock with fish that wont run all year (b) start with the simplest most foolproof system.
Have a look at EB's balcony system and realise this is wider than what you're planning.


Vege bed is 1200x4000x400 but could be as deep as I can be bothered diggin it. Wall is 400 high but I can go further Down or put a taper on the bottom easily as we have very sandy soil here near me. That was how I came up with approx 2000l. I am probably not someone who will be out every single day so was looking at simple not overstocked with fish and not caring if the plants were even growing at their maximum possible rate. Just hoping for semi foolproof. Will figure out a battery backup away some stage, will need to make sure sump wouldn't drain tank if pump fails, assume float valve is all that is necessary. And beds would still have some water in them so not a total loss. Don't think I need a sump specifically to increase volume so maybe I can bypass this alltogether? And was thinking bell siphon coz it was set and forget and continuously run pump, at least for daytime?
Yes my first fish and non regular soil vege growing attempts!
Pump in bio filter? What media do you use in/ as the bio filter?
Thanks again


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PostPosted: Feb 27th, '13, 14:40 
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"My plan is to convert my current vegie patch ( a stone retaining wall around (internals: 120mmx400mmx40mm - depth can be whatever i did it down"

I think that was this bit that stuffed me on the size; I kept thinking I have had aquariums a lot bigger than that, even if you had made a mistake on the length and depth, and you want to grow barra. :lol:

So it's 1.2m long 4m wide and the depth is currently .4m? Its just by your drawing it looked the other way. Any chances of taking a pic of the raised vege garden showing how much room you have round it? :)


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PostPosted: Feb 27th, '13, 15:12 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Anything is possible the waste water from this water feature [ filter waste ] helps to run this wicking bed system
Better look at my system for a few ideas


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File comment: water feature waste from filter going to wicking beds
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File comment: wicking bed using filter waste water
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File comment: wicking bed
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PostPosted: Feb 27th, '13, 18:26 
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Sleepe wrote:
"My plan is to convert my current vegie patch ( a stone retaining wall around (internals: 120mmx400mmx40mm - depth can be whatever i did it down"

I think that was this bit that stuffed me on the size; I kept thinking I have had aquariums a lot bigger than that


Hmmm well that kinda got things off on the wrong foot didn't it!!! 2000L FT that fits in the palm of your hand... I'd be a millionaire!!!

So my bed is 4m wide, 1.2m to the back fence and 40cm so deep, can't seem to be able to edit the first post even when Logged in, when I figure if out I will pretend it was all perfect from the start :oops:


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