Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hello again - I think I need your help :-/.

Things are not becoming the lush paradise I was hoping for...
Plants are growing fine, looking green and great, but only for a week or so and then they just give up on life and crumble.

Examples:

One day they are fine, the next they look like the above sorry specimen.



I've compiled a list of things I think could be causing this problem:
1) lack of sunlight? It is pretty dark here, but I do not think the plants would behave this way if it was a question of light.'
2) the water level or similar - the roots are wet and, again, wouldn't they turn yellow instead, if lack of water was the problem?
3) Temperature. I guess this is what is killing my plants. At the moment we are getting temperatures of -12 degrees and even though they are inside, the window is cold and the room temperature cannot adequately combat the temperature right next to the windows (especially as the heater is below the other window..).

So would plants suffering from cold behave the way my plants are?

I could really use some pointers here :-).

Are you in a place where you can push some air about??? Stem strength is built as the plant responds to being pushed by wind. Re-direct a register... turn on a fan...

and... The other thing we're not seeing at all are measurements of your water. pH... nitrates, nitrites... the test kits for aquariums work... roughly $25, and would bust your budget... but might be more help.

First and third photo, the dying plant either got to hot, to cold, or collapsed because of a disease. The second photo group looks like it's trying to get more sunlight. The peas on the strings don't look all that bad but may need a bit more light.

The plant in the first photo doesn't look to be the closest to the window, is that correct or is the window behind the black mesh screen? Does this get any direct sunlight? Black is not the best choice of colors for plant support because it can heat up pretty dramatically. For example, the South outside wall of my house when measured with an infrared temperature reader, measures well over 100 degrees F when the sun is shining, even in January (black would be hotter). This is just a thought.



This is a good idea as well and might help with the cold air along the windows and any drips.

Helloa gain,
And many thanks to both dancinhrblady and scotty435 for the input.

There are a few things you bring up that I can remedy immediately:

1) The mesh will go down (the idea was that it would work as a heat-absorber from the sun and keep the warmth a bit longer - and then when I needed something to tie the peas onto it was there. I guess that was a case of two thoughts that didn't fully connect :-)).

2) The idea of a fan is great - it should help move the warmth of the surrounding room onto the growbeds and (if that is really how it works) will perhaps strenghten the stems a bit. So I'll be on the look out for a fan :-).

3) A thorough test of the water. Funny that this would be needed after I havn't had a use for one in almost three years of having multiple aquariums, but now that I want to grow vegetables it might be required :-).
I do not think there is anything amiss with the water, but it couldn't hurt to test it. I'll give a shout to my fish-interested friends - there must be someone with a test in surplus.

4) Light and warmth. I still think these are the major contributors to the depressed plants. There is little I can to about the sun - it won't really be contributing anything for a month. But I am in the process of arranging a trade (a bunch of Cryptocorynes and some Scuds) that might give me a suitable lamp and two t8 6400k white bulbs. That should help with the light and should also give some more heat, at least while it they are switched on.

I'll return once I've more on the tests and the lighting.

In the meantime, another problem has arisen - it seems the growbed I found is not really up to the task of having all that weight in it constantly. The bottom has begun bulging slightly, and small droplets of water have begun appearing beneath this bulge. So I'll have to figure out how to better support the bottom of the system...
I might have found a suitable piece of heavy plastic the other day (along with a brand new squash racket and a military shovel - why do people throw these things away???)

All the best,
Kasper

Hello again,
Look what I found:

Based on the advice I got, I decided to forage for a fan, and the janitor at my University was kind enough to give me this old beauty. It might be old but it has that old school Atari look that brings a smile to my face each time I see it.

Its a bit noisy but I'll tighten a few screws and clean the engine, and then it should run smoothly. Those things were built to last a loong time.

So this should help to show whether or not some airflow will help my depressed plants.

Here is a picture showing the nasty water that appears to be seeping through the bottom of the growbed


- will have to do something about that, soon...


All the best,
Kasper

Hello all,
Unfortunately the problem of depressed plants persists.
I threw in a new batch of seeds and, as usual, they grew nicely. This is after two days:

And then they all more or less melt away.
The pea plant on the left above was looking nice and healthy but also just gave up on life.
I pulled the remains to closer examine the forensic evidence, and was pretty surprised by its root sytem. Looks strong and healthy:

Anyone have any suggestions apart from waiting for warmer weather? We got hit by another cold period (-10 degrees outside atm) and there won't be any improvement anytime soon.

All the best,
Kasper

I think it's damping off. I'd get a seedling heating mat and one of those nursery trays with a cover. I'd start the plants in seedling mix and let them get bigger before transplanting them into the AP. Rinse the seedling mix off before putting them in. They'll be less susceptible to the damping off fungus this way because the stems will be thicker. Some seeds don't need the warmth (lettuce for instance so I wouldn't use the heat mat for them)

You could also try starting the plants and then lowering the water level once they get started but before they start to have problems. The moisture up around the base of the stem encourages this sort of problem so lowering it may be enough to fend the problem off. Temperature is also a factor which is why I suggested the heating mat.

Dear scotty435,
Thanks! I think you've identified the problem. I've been reading up on that nasty disease and think mine is caused by an attack of Rhizoctonia solani. As far as I can see there are two ways of combating this fungi;

1) to only plant well-established plants, as per your suggestion
and
2) to make Rhizoctonia solani's life as difficult as possible. This can be done by lowering the Ph of the 'soil'.

I'll attempt solution number 2 first, as it does not involve any major changes and would, in the long run, be nice to actually be able to sow directly into the growbed.
I'll try a couple of easy ways of lowering the Ph first (i.e. applying chamomile tea and/or powdered cinnamon) to the growbed daily. The fish should not be affected by the slight adjustment to Ph this should hopefully cause. But should the treatment not be effective I'll establish a nursery as per your guidelines.

I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge!
All the best,
Kasper

Hi Kasper!

Sweden calling

I´m definitely going to keep an eye on your system thread to see further developments.

I would like to start something small up as well, with similar restrictions (price, size, climate). Either for kitchen window or the balcony over the summer. Will be good to see your learning process.

What kind of fish do you use?

//H

Sounds like an interesting solution Kasper. Cinnamon has antimicrobial properties but you probably already knew that - you might get some results without much pH change just because of this. I'm not sure if the cinnamon will have any unintended negative affect on the growbed bacterial population (probably not, I've used it before). Let us know what you try and whether it works.

FYI the pH for most systems comes down over time. The main thing is avoid any rapid changes to the pH which can cause problems for the fish, plants, and bacteria in the growbeds.

Dear scotty435,
I've been researching whether the application of said substances should cause any ill-effect to the fish, and it does not seem that anyone have any scary tales or information on the subject. So I'll begin operation "chamomile-cinnamon" immediately (also wondering if this would make the fish taste better... Mmm cinnamon-flavoured fish :-).
I'll be sure to report back on any results.

Hej Hani!
Nice to have a Scandinavian Aquaponic-brother visit my project-thread :-).
At the moment I only have 20-30 sturdy Poecilia reticulata in the tank. If this project turns out to be a success I would probably look for species that thrive better in dark, plant-less containers. I have a few appropriate candidates, but the Poecilia reticulata are fine for now. They are sturdy enough to survive whatever I do to them, and their offspring provide my larger fish with nutrition.
As for your system, I will be eager to see what you create - I think our northerly troubles will always be the amount of sun and heat we can offer the system, without it turning into a huge post on the electric bill.

All the best,
Kasper

Hi Kasper,

The heating is one of the things that i would like to avoid as much as possible

To have a low maintenance/ low electricity bill type of system - despite the Nordic climate.

Was thinking that maybe it would be possible to set up a balcony system for spring-late summer and then move the fish indoors to a regular aquarium during the colder.

How much do you have to heat the water for your Guppies? I´ve heard, just as you say, that they´re quite hardy little buggers but maybe ordinary goldfish are more resilient to cold water temps (???) What do you think?

Hi Kaspar,

Any update on your plants? Are they growing better?
Quite curious because I like your setup!

Dieter

Howdy Dieter!
Sorry for the delay in updates, etc.
Well the damping off-thingie disappeared as the weather got warmer, and the plants are growing adequately.
Right now, although the system has been fun to build and struggle with, i'm not completely satisfied.
If you look at the latest pictures (http://fishtankdk.blogspot.dk/2013/05/a ... pdate.html) you'll see that the plants i the aquaponic setup is not growing anywhere near as well as those in the next window.

So, this system (suffering from a less than ideal location, i.e. only a few hours of direct sunlight) works well enough to clean the tank, grow some plants (slowly) and without me needing to water them. So those are all good things, but I havn't been blown away by the setup and its 'production'.

This might all change as we enter the summer months, so I'll report back.

All the best,
Kasper