Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

So ive searched everywhere and cant find out if using this product would be ok for fish or not.

http://www.fertilisersonline.com.au/product.asp?id=1335

It does say its an irritant to the eyes/skin, however I cant work out which component would cause that, i suspect the Sulphur though.

What does everyone think?

It would be alot more convenient than buying everything seperately and includes things that i would never get my hands on otherwise - boron/molybdenum.

Quick look... lots of "sulphate" compounds... and Copper & Zinc...

I'd give it a miss... especially when Seasol contains all the trace elements and other stuff... that you'll ever need... and is fish safe...

Seasol's probably cheaper as well...

The problem ive had with seasol though, is i have 2x 2700L tanks, ive dumped in enough seasol (also dumped in powerfeed) to make the water too dark to see the bottom, but plants are still yellow, no growth, going straight to flower.

couple months later - only using one tank now.
Ive now added lots, probably way too much - like 15 heaped teaspoons of iron chealates and things seem to be colouring up a bit, slowly.
The water got so discoloured i couldnt see through 30cm without sun on the water, its clearing up a bit now.

The only things i havent added to my system is builders lime and calcium (but i have 5kg of shellgrit for calcium), ill add those tomorrow.

Do i need to add more seasol? what would be the rate for 5400L? should it be a weak tea colour/strong tea colour?


I do need to add more fish (alot more), i only have about 30-40 goldfish in there now (ive killed about 140 fish since the system went in in winter, mostly trout, a few bass fingerlings), fish seem to be handling the tanks better now, think it was temp fluctuations.
it doesnt seem to be nitrogen deficiency halting growth.

Hi Yavimaya,

I'd consider holding off on adding anything else just yet. Do you have any information on pH, Temp, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates etc? Large or small goldfish? How old is the system? How big were the trout that died? Anything else you can think of that would help with troubleshooting?

The system is about 6 months old.
2x Gal tanks, i have found out they are sealed with Prosil 10, i am in the process of coating each with polyester fibreglass resin (one done, leaving to cure for atleast 2 weeks)

Right now i am using an X1 dirty water pump from bunnings. to bed Piping is black/blue striped 25mm pipe (suitable for use with Philmac metric connections (http://www.bunnings.com.au/products_pro ... e=products)), From bed piping is 50mm Vinidex dwv pvcu piping.

Water is pumped onto a flat garage roof, running through 12x6m- 100mm Vinidex dwv pvcu piping, 3/4 filled with canna aqua clay balls, 13 bags used/ 580L - these are about 20cm off the roof.

During the time that i had the trout i was running it 15min on / 15min off flood and drain. the water would follow the ambient temperature but lag by about 5-6c. I had quite large temp swings.

I started with 100 trout fingerlings, i had slow but constant deaths, there never looked to be any disease, except the very occasional fungal problem (almost all fungus covered before found dead, almost never saw any on live fish). At this point temps are between about 8-19c, it is near the end of winter.

A few made it to summer, the first 40c day killed them because the water got to 29.5c. The largest grew to about 20cm long, the others were about 13cm (i never measured them).


Temps seem to be sitting closer to 20-27c depending on the weather now that i have changed to a trickle of water through each pipe - constant flow. Summer now.

I had bought 50 goldfish to keep the system going, these seem to be getting different problems, stress related - side rot, mouth rot, a little fin rot (no visible fungus though, only tail fin) - about 10-15 deaths.

i dont have readings on nitrates, etc. A friend has left a test kit with me that i dont know how to use, he hs also lost the colour chart, i have confirmed with him and a local aquarium that the tanks are cycled.

My cheap 4 in 1 soil/fert/light tester ( i know im not testing properly) says the PH is about 6.8 - 6.9.

I am looking for cheap(ish) probe/pen testers if i can find them for PH/ammonia/nitrites/ etc. as i dont like the chemical kits.

I forgot to mention;

I have an aquapro AP5000uv (9w uvclarifier) filter; 3 sponges and crappy large plastic bioballs - thin heatsink fin style, not column style.

60l sand in the bottom of tank 1.

100 mussels.

Large laundry netbag full of barley straw hanging in tank 1.

Tank 1 drains into tank 2, then pumped to bed, back to tank 1.

goldfish size - they were small, only had them a couple of months, some are up to about 8-10cm excluding tail fin, ive been feeding heavily this last month as ive been on holidays. An automatic feeder will be built soon to keep up the 5-6 small feedings a day - 40-50 3mm pellets per feed (one medium pinch using three fingers).

I will try to get photos soon, i dont have a camera.

Most people here use the Freshwater Master test kits (http://www.amazon.com/API-Freshwater-Master-Test-Kit/dp/B000255NCI). Usually it gets used a lot early on and then not much after the system gets going. The few pen testers I've used went south fairly quickly and some require chemicals for calibration. I know for some it's tough to read the colors on the chemical test kits so just go with what works for you.

The temperature swings would cause problems and maybe this is all that's happening. When I read your earlier post I was inclined to think that the pH is high and you're having some nutrient lockout issues (which could cause yellowing of plant leaves) so you really need to figure a solution to the testing issue. Testing might tell us what it isn't, even if it doesn't tell us what it is.

ok ill have a look around for one that has bold colour changes between stages, i have bought strips but they go from white to pink to darker pink, etc. My eyes arent good at picking shades of certain colours and in certain light pink looks like white and vice versa.

I got some testers from a guy on ebay - he's in SA and the kits arrived 2 days later, one is NH3/NH4 and the other is NO3 (Nitrates) - they were $10 each and the colours are on the pack. Easy to use. I got a probe pH meter that, once I learned to turn it on IN the water, works fine. It required calibrating but that's simple and it seems to hold the calibration. (look for spider1397 - he was helpful and prompt - got a discount on multiple shipping as well)

Gal tanks? I thought I remembered reading they aren't good for AP - which I guess is why you are coating them. Don't know much about that or the coating you mention earlier, but overall my impression is you are reacting too quickly and too often without actually knowing what the problems are.

Whatever is going on, reacting to every twitch in the system will drive you mad and probably shock your fish so bad they'll lose their resilience and die on you.

Deep Breaths needed.

Get testers (or look on line how to use what you have) or go to a store that sells them and look for what the process is and what the colours mean. You need some data on what is going on in your tanks before doing any more adding of anything.

If I was in your situation I'd be moving all the extra stuff out and sitting with a basic set up for a while. Adding things is probably just swinging you from one problem to another - the changes alone might be hurting your fish. I've had an 1000L IBC running for better than 6 months and I've added nothing to it - the plants on top are several feet high, a'bustle with bees at the flowers and the silverbeet grew over a metre high in 5 weeks.

And that was on 2 goldfish.

Just have clean water going to the FT, then from the FT to the filters or GB, then to sump or FT, depending on how you set it up. Let things settle for a couple of days - goldfish are hardy sorts (although chlorinated tap water will kill them quickly - ask Bendigo Council who took out 200 at the Chinese Museum) so they should survive while you let things settle.

For that matter, are you topping up with tap water and if so, does your area 'treat' the drinking water? Aerating the water for a few days will help with Chlorine but chloramines take a bit more work to remove. Actvated carbon filters will help if you have those. (Bendigo has both added)

Are your bioballs coated? If they are still shiny plastic they aren't working as bioballs yet.

What other filtering do you have?

Probably showing my ignorance here but what is the straw for? You have plant matter hanging in your FT - that's going to be pulling oxygen from the tank even if it is just for decaying.

What air systems are you using? If Dissolved O2 is high the fish can survive much better than when it drops - maybe some air pumps and air stones in each tank?

What is in the GB's? (plant-wise I mean)

I'm a bit confused by the description "12x6m- 100mm Vinidex dwv pvcu piping, 3/4 filled with canna aqua clay balls, 13 bags used/ 580L - these are about 20cm off the roof." Are those GB's or pipes? I think you're saying you have 12 6m long 100mm pipes as your grow media but 580L of clay balls for that seems not right.

Dirty water sounds like you're not getting filtering happening or you're overfeeding or you're getting soiled water back from the GB's. Check your filter, make yourself a swirl/settling filter and if you don't already have it, a bioball-type biofilter in a drum with a decent air source in the bottom - one of those round diffuser types would be best and pumping maybe 5L per minute into it.

Hope this helps some...

Yes the "growbeds" are pvc pipes, like people tend to use in hydroponics for tomatos, these are used as they sit on a garage roof and the bed needs to be as light as possible (im even thinking of removing the media).

The water isnt "dirty", the pump is a dirty water pump as the clean water version had to large a flow rate for my 5000l pond filter.

Right now there are a few eggplants, a few corn and a few zucchini, all seedling size basically.

There is no other filtering, just the pond filter and growbeds, by what ive read here i shouldnt even have the pond filter (?).

The only thing ive added as extras that arent said about here is the straw, the sand ive added to add biomedia as i dont have a proper bed (i always add sand no matter what).

Regarding the straw : http://ohioline.osu.edu/a-fact/0012.html
ive used straw in ponds successfully, not harming fish or plants for a good few years now.

I dont have any air stones, it is a constantly recirculating system with multiple "waterfall" points.

From what I can tell so far it doesn't look like you had enough filtration for the fish numbers you were trying to run although you should have been ok until they got larger. Considering their initial size I doubt this had anything to do with their deaths. This thread might be helpful
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6646

In your shoes I would remove the media from the pipes and put it in a separate growbed/s. I would install a swirl filter to pull off some of the solids before the growbeds(the idea would be to reduce ammonia and nitrite to levels that the system can handle) - this would only be needed if you can't put in more media beds than you have (more than 580L) and you still want to run higher fish numbers (This should work but I haven't tried it yet so take it as an experiment). If your focus is plants then you really don't need many fish to grow the plants and you can just stock lightly.


This video Ryan did for AES might give you some ideas on filtration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIs_-6MkJWE

Ryan is a member here - this is his current project http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12589

My focus was going to be equally on both, however if i couldnt find fish i liked alot, then the system would be weighted slightly towards plants.

I have been thinking for awhile that i need a proper growbed running F&D, the problem i have is i will have to bury a sump of 600L minimum, not looking forward to digging a hole that is over a metre deep through the clay i have had to dig through to build my pond, the other option is my pond as sump, which i want to avoid as i dont want the levels in there going up and down - also will be stocked with plants.

The deaths definetaly weren't from overstocking/too little filtration, there were less than 100 finglerings in 5400L at any one time. The tanks cycled very quickly. My buddy who left the kit with me knows fish (trpoical aquarium setups though) and assured me it wasnt from ammonia or nitrite/ate.
Fish deaths seem to not be happening now - although i am not holding my breath.

By what i have read here, alot of people dont even use filtration (?), they simply have the solids sucked to GB, As it is setup now (only one tank, the one with sand) there are no solids, the sand on the bottom of the tank or mussels take care of that, only a few leaves that dont last long either.

One question i should ask, Am i doing the wrong thing by trying to setup my tank to be somewhat natural like i would always do when i build ponds? should i leave the system as bare as possible (no sand, no mussels, etc)?

Sorry its taking me so long to get pics, etc, im back at work now and am getting lazy lol.

The only reason i would remove the media from the pipes is to remove weight from the roof, in its current form only 20% or so of the media is being used, as it is an attempt at NFT without using pots.
When it was flood and drain, there was 100% media use, but plants didnt do a single bit better, infact they did worse.


Ill really have to get you guys pictures/ videos, i cant see how my system is letting me down, if an IBC system works so well, this should work too, im sure.

Pictures would help Yavimaya.



The growbeds are acting as the filter, some people like Ryan use additional filters.



If you do Constant Flood/Continuous Flow you will avoid the fluctuations and depending on how your system is setup you might not need a sump at all. It might also help with the temperature fluctuations since the water is always moving and mixing.



I think you are right about this but I also think you would of had problems unless you had plans to get rid of some before they reached eating size or were willing to change out water regularly. The volume of the tank is important but the filtration capacity sometimes matters more.



Both kinds of systems exist, I can't recall anyone with sand in there system because it just makes cleaning more difficult. As far as the mussels, I know others here have tried that but I don't remember how they came out with them.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Sorry, when i said "dont use filtration", i dont include growbeds as filters as such, i mean actual filters, just to keep things simple, alot of terminology seems to be confusing here, for new(ish) people anyway.

(so far) I dont think i will have to clean my tank often, if at all, not the one with the sand, only ever very few visible solids, although that doesnt mean the sand isnt getting dirty under the first layer (but bacteria should take care of that?).

its too hard to explain, but my beds are on my roof (2.5m off the ground), Tank 1 sits 15cm off the ground so it can flow into tank 2 which is on the ground, both tanks are 1300mm high (squat tanks), so i will need a sump of some sort if i am to have a normal GB, as it cant go on the roof. There is no way the bed is being lifted 1.5m off the ground.

I have thought about having constant flow for my normal GB, then using pond, however by what i have read this is a worse way than F&D? both in terms of wetting the whole bed for the plant roots, but also leaves dry patches so not all the media is useful for bacteria.


A constant flow bed wont help with temp. fluctuations, it fluctuates because the beds sit up in full sun all day, over a hot roof, If i had enough plants grown to a decent size to shade them, i wouldnt have temp. problems, but alas, the few tiny plants i have are not able to help that.

Whoever told you this doesn't have a handle on running CF. The water level in CF is within an inch of the surface of the growbed media in most cases - which is about where you want the F & D level to top out so no difference there really.



Yes, sitting up in the sun is the problem and what I'm trying to say but didn't do a very good job is that you can put more water into the tanks with CF and this will help your temperature slightly because there is more water to heat or cool. The fact that it's always moving and mixing means that you aren't dumping any water with a radically different temp into the fish tank like you might on a really hot day where water sits up on the hot roof slowly draining. The heat gained may wind up the same but the temps are more consistent throughout the system.

Your tanks are high enough to put in one or more slightly raised growbed/s provided your water level stays high (which it should running CF). What's your highest water level in the low tank? That's about where you can run for CF - just top up for evaporation. The downside is you will need to add a small sump which can be separate or part of the growbed if you only have one. This sump should be manageable without digging but might be better if it's lower.

Shade cloth If it's in the budget and can be rigged up on the roof