Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Thanks, doing that now. I've been trying to read several threads on larger systems, but many of them are fairly long.

Not sure at this point, still researching to find the system configuration that will work best for this size AP. Still very much in the learning process and trying to absorb all the information available here. I've now reconfigured the layout using IBC's for everything. My initial direction, until I become better informed, is to do a CHIFT PIST setup. As I understand, that means your FT's will stay at constant water level and you are pumping from your sump to the FT's with gravity flow elsewhere.

As far as draining the grow beds, I'm not sure if I will use siphons for flood and drain or do a constant flow setup. Don't know all the nuances, pros, and cons yet.

Even in my modest 3 x half blue barrel growbeds, one x half blue barrel sump, 1 x IBC fsh tank, I found the cost of taps and plumbing worked out to be more than the cost of replacing my 3 growbeds with one IBC growbed.

Make sure you work out the cost of adding a tap and all the plumbing fixtures to each grow bed. No doubt it will be different depending on where you live, and what you can screw into your growbed's existing ports.

Also, the space between growbeds is a really valuable thing you can create for free. There are a lot of plants like cabbage and squash that would fill a blue barrel. But if you put some space between at least some of your growbeds, you can plant four of these plants in the corners of one growbed. There are a stack of things you can crowd in, but it's worth leaving some growbeds with a few feet between them to capitalise on the free growspace between them.

as what Bullwinklell said. I had 19 barrels and was about to make a large BB system. I layed it all out on paper then looked at plumbing requirements (cost of plumbing inlets and outlets to all BB's), then ended up selling the BBs. It may surprise you, will be very dear compared to an IBC solution

Thank you all very much for your input. I've taken the comments offered here into consideration and made some changes to the first draft. I've decided to ditch the poly-barrels and go with all IBC totes for everything. At this stage of design, I still want to retain the ability to run three separate systems. However, with the design I have here, it will not be difficult to convert over to a single large system if I conclude that is the best way to go. The main reason for running separate systems is to independently control water temps for multiple fish species, such as catfish, tilapia, and trout. I still see some insurance benefits with not having all my eggs in one basket.

There are four FTs (top) and four rainwater collection tanks (bottom) at one end. There are three rows of GBs with each of the outer two lines having eight IBC's and the middle line with seven. The GB's in each row are connected in series. There are also four IBC-halves per line for the sump tanks, also connected in series. If necessary, I can possibly squeeze in a 5th sump tank per line by rearranging the block pier pattern. The 3rd and 4th FT's can be segregated or joined by inflow/outflow ball valves. I intend to reserve the 4th tank as a hospital tank and/or a fry grow-out tank.

Initially, I had a single discharge pipe coming from each SLO on the FTs dropping into the first GB in each row. However, I later figured that would mean all the FT solids would end up only going to the first GBs. So, I ran a 3" trunk line down each row.

I am only using one large Annan siphon at the end of each GB row for sump return. I am not sure this will be enough outflow for 8 IBC GB's linked in series. I have not done any of the math yet, so I still have some homework to tend to. I suspect the siphon configuration will have to be redesigned, but wanted to see what you guys and gals thought about doing it this way.

My intial goal was to see just how much AP could be packed into a 16' X 44' hoophouse. That size house just fits with slight excavation on an old above-ground pool location in my front yard. After looking at many photos of the excellent members' systems on BYAP, I am now thinking I may have the GB's packed a bit too tightly together. If that turns out to be the case, I would probably eliminate the middle line and move the two outer rows inward to create a more likely manageable space.

Here's the pics for the new configuration and a link to the 3D Sketchup model:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... cc9a357208

Wow very impressive, and I like your Sketchup skills.

For your GBs make sure you use the whole IBC cut in half, not like others making them 300 deep. Also I have found you only need 1 x 1/2 IBC as Sump per 4 GBs. (25% ratio)

I would run the water supply for the GBs along the path side rather than along the outside wall. Reason, when get a lot of plant growth you cant see whats going on. Could have blockages etc and would not know. Ask me how I know. LoL

Having a large siphon at the end will work fine, as long as the feed from each growbed is big enough, and flows freely enough. Roots will try to clog pipes and drains, so you still need a media guard around your exit pipes. Something big enough that you can reach your hand into to pull out roots and remove any media. You wont need to do this all that often, but you will regret not being able to do it with ease when you do. Ask me how I know. LoL

And +1 for having visible plumbing close at hand.

Another thing that I think is a worthwhile addition is a tap and hose for watering in seeds and seedlings ie a hose with running fish tank water. In a system that big it will be very handy.

And I think making three systems is a very good idea.

It's worth setting up an automatic feed for your topup water. there are several float based systems for stock tanks, but avoid anything with metal components.

You will want to be able to see your fish without a ladder.

The fish tank water level is a constant (ie always full), so you dont really need that amount of head to feed the growbeds.

Another thing I found was to work out various ways (use of different fittings) to plumb up a GB and get your costs. In your case you then have to multiply by 23. The pipework back to the external syphon/standpipe is going to remain the same, but fittings from GB to that pipe can become expensive.

I did some research on this and came up with the idea of using "TopHat Grommets" In your case they are available in one inch and cost less than a dollar each. You would require 2 each GB plus a poly pipe barbed joiner (as used in irrigation systems). I thought I had a photo to show you, but has been deleted. I have some coming and should arrive tomorrow, Will take a photo and post it, if you want. Point I make is that your fittings can cost less than $3.00/GB or $70 for the lot. Now price out other methods.

The pipe work can be either 50mm or 90mm (dont know what is your common sizes over there) Our 90mm Stormwater pipe (downpipe from house gutters) down here is just as cheap to buy as 50mm. So do a price comparison and if not much difference go for the larger pipe.

This might be what chainsaw is talking about (I dont know what TopHat grommets are) if so sorry to double up...

If you have a length of PVC with a series of holes, the holes dont always get the same flow, so...

You'll probably want to control the flow to each growbed, and rather than expensive taps, some people use PVC elbows that they leave unglued. This allows you to adjust the height of the outflow. In your case it might be a length of PVC with holes drilled along it, but the same might apply. If the pipes can safely be left unglued, ie a join is mounted firmly to each side of each growbed, you can roll the pipe over if too little or too much flow is going to that particular grow bed.

Just something to look into (perhaps)

here's a good example from DunderOZ..

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11633&hilit=dunder&start=75#p322652

Thanks Chainsaw! I surely wish I could take full credit, but it's fairly easy when others have already created the components so you can drag 'n drop. Some of these things are unbelievably intricate, particularly the plants that were in the model I downloaded. I hadn't worked with Sketchup before, but I have used other 3D software, so it wasn't a total learning curve. It is a remarkable piece of software, especially considering it's free to use.

Yes, I debated on which side to run the supply line and decided they would likely be in the way during planting/harvesting. But, it sounds like your way might have merit enough to justify the path side. This is exactly why it pays to share your ideas in a community fashion so we can all benefit from the common trips and stumbles along the way. I'm already concerned that maybe three GB lines is just too much for the available space, but again, I'm trying to max it out. So, I will probably just make sure that I give attention to planting things that don't grow super tall or bushy on the outside lines and save the bigger stuff for the middle line.

You may want to look at this build
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5259
It have given me a lot of ideas on how I want to build my system in a greenhouse. Thanks for the link to the Poly Pipe greenhouse, I like it.

Jack

Great! I was really hoping to hear someone confirm the sufficiency of using only one siphon per GB line. As drawn, I'm using 3" PVC for all supply/return lines, the one exception being the siphon reducers and drop-tubes are 2". My thoughts are that the GB tanks will all be connected by 3" piping, so the water level should act as one big tank, but wasn't sure if the single siphon would be able to discharge sufficiently to keep up with pump inflows. Guess it depends on the pump's ability and keeping the connecting lines free of obstructions. Also wasn't sure how much the aggregates would impede the drainage as well. To solve the root blockage problem, perhaps I can just run one long connecting pipe between all GB's and perforate them with weep holes at the right points under the GB's with the pipe extending outside the very last GB with a cleanout at the end?



Per Chainsaw's recommendation, I will move the supply lines to the path side for the outer GB lines. I think I have the flow control covered with the 45 degree elbow outlets which I can leave unglued so they will rotate as necessary.

I still don't see the case for non-elevated fish tanks. My concern is that I will likely want to run a large PEX coil into the rain collection tanks to turn them into a heatsink connected to an outside PVC solar collector. I could probably move the rain tanks outside the hoop house, but I think they will be potentially more useful inside. I like the auto top-up and fish water/seedling ideas. I agree, the FT head is not needed due to CHIFT PIST system. But what's the downside of using a ladder to view the fish, other than my cracklin' old bones having to climb up a bit?

Just the old bones

I found I spend quit a bit of time looking at fish, so I was thinking you may as well be comfortable

The only issue is that it's nice to look at them, so you don't want to make it difficult.

It's not a problem, just not required, and the pump will work harder than it needs to.

where is the rainwater coming from? If you are not pumping it, but collecting it from a nearby roof, there might be an advantage in storing rainwater above the fishtanks so you can gravity feed the topup water.

RE weep holes... what media will you use? Keep in mind that clay balls fill nice round holes, so if you will be using clay, cut slots rather than holes, but aside from that, that sounds like a good idea as long as you can work out the joins between each grow bed. Chainsaw's tophats look like they might be just what you need. I didnt think of clay balls fitting into drilled holes until it was too late

Are you talking about how to get the 3" pvc to go through each IBC? If so, I had seen some videos where folks were using a Uniseal.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a ... 3godqz0Aqg

I found the tophat grommets, but not available in 3". Were you talking about a different application?

No, that same application.

But I havnt used either. My blue barrel growbeds are plumbed through their existing openings with black poly fittings.

Just cost everything as chainsaw suggested. Plumbing costs can really mount up.