Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

+1

Pretty nasty to freeze the account with no warning, I can understand you looking elsewhere.

Used Paypay a lot myself not had an issue. Long as you initialize a dispute before the time limit I have not had a issue getting refund for non-received goods.
After you initialized it the seller has a chance to respond and you can wait another week or two for delivery safely before escalating it to a claim.

How does that work when the dispute is with Paypal and they've frozen your account so you can't know how many people tried to buy and couldn't?

Add to that the reputation issue - if you went to buy from someone and found Paypal had frozen their account, wouldn't the FIRST thought be along the lines of, "they must be running a shonky business" and you go look elsewhere?

Can we spell 'Restrictive Trade Practices'?

Now a nice email explaining that, on the basis of the US Dept rules and the ethical point of supporting regime change by depriving the people until they throw out the dictators would be one thing - to blackmail someone into compliance is pretty much the same sort of behaviour used by those Paypal seems so set against.

"Democracy for Everyone! (except everywhere in the world that isn't the US - and they aren't doing so good either )

It is an interesting situation from an historic PoV - Freedom of choice for everyone, but you have to choose our way or we will make war on you and put in a govt friendly to us. The US has a long history of using Corporations to take over countries - take a read of Confessions of an Economic Hitman - there are video and MP3 versions and the book can be downloaded if you know where to look. It's an eye-opener to world affairs.

Just had a quick butchers at the book. Not too surprised really, but been going on for centuries! Colonisation was always about resources for "corporations" and always used the military to back up the money. The old saying of "follow the money" is most appropriate. But what has Mali got that the West wants? Can't figure that one out

Yeah they are nice to buyers.. As a person who buys and sells using paypal I do love to use it when buying things, it means you don't have to fill in credit card details and often not even delivery address, you just check out with paypal and it's all there, simple..

As a seller Paypal sucks... We have had a number of disputes raised and they have ignored us in every case. I've had people buy our electronic products then raise a dispute 15 minutes later and escalate it 1-2 minute after that.. No chance for me to respond or try and find out what might be wrong, they just know they can abuse the system, get access to download electronic material, then get their money back, no questions asked.. I explain to paypal that we sell electronic products and they have received theirt products, but you never even get a response from paypal.

Also had one where there was stolen credit card details used. Now banks are supposed to back credit card use, if your details are used fraudulently then as the customer you are never out of pocket, the back refunds any fraudulent losses to the card holder.. The bank responsible for the card contacted paypal, said that it was a fraudulent use, the money was taken off us by paypal and given back to the bank..

Like I say, no care for the seller at all... After all my questions (and a bit of abuse) with this latest episode, what sort of response did I get? Automated of course..

I would ditch paypal, at least for the electronic material.

They are expensive anyway, you a probably better off getting your own bank portal, much cheaper transaction fees, just a little bit of setup required.
Put in a quick an easy credit card payment system, perhaps with transfer or something.


So true.
You know Hitler was elected by a democracy ? I'm not so sure about the merits of "majority rule". The "majoriy" can (and has) decide to implement all sorts of horrible rules that affect minorities.



I have been meaning to get that book. I wonder if the US public (and Aust.) would support as many wars and foreign policy if they understood the behind the scenes politics/bribing/extortion described in that book.
Good luck getting any substantial number of people to do that though

With around 1000 military bases in over 130 countries, the US is certainly a global empire.

It's still a hell of a lot better.. than minority rule.... and there's a long history of minority rule implementing "horrible rules" that affect majorities...

I'd much prefer a "utopian" worldwide group hugathon... as long as I could chose who I hugged and who I didn't....

Maybe in some ways, although I have been reading a little on how property rights and taxes etc have been significantly better under some monarchies (despite the relative poor quality of life of those times)... interesting anyway.
I'll keep hoping (and maybe helping) for the slow progression towards "individual rule"

... time to take it to another thread me thinks superveg...

Long story short, Paypal will tell you how to do business and if you don't like it, you can F-Off

Um... does anyone actually believe we have a majority rules society? Serious question. We elect a bunch of folks based on who gets most votes, but the level of manipulation involved makes it unlikely the majority actually have any understanding of what they are electing.

Then once they get in they operate according ONLY to what their party says. And those who get in but aren't in the majority party promptly drop all their promises and policies and instead act as a handbrake on anything the majority party tries to do - even when it is exactly what they were pushing in the first place.

Not only does the majority not have any say in how things are run, the parties are not being run according to anything the people want anyway, except where it incidentally provides an avenue for the Corporations and lobby groups behind the Govt to make profits or get the things they lobby for.

An example - FOI. Freedom of Information. Supposed to be a bill to let us all be able to see what goes on and is kept in files. Except what it REALLY was had more to do with passing into law the right for govts to withhold information from The People at the discretion of the govt. Prior to that the govt had no such right - they were servants of the People and if a member of the People demanded to see something there was no legal right for ANY bureaucrat or govt rep to refuse them.

Now there is.

And even when you manage to get documents from them, they are so redacted as to be mostly useless.

Govt by the majority? Not bloody likely.

And Democracy is flawed - just like a jury, there is no justification for the idea that many people might be more right than one person. The War on Terror should be enough of an example that a Democracy can be fooled and misled into committing terror acts against other nations.

I agree with your sentiments Journeyman.... but in many ways it does come down to us.. the people...

We have allowed, condoned, blessed... and consented to the stupidity of a two party political system... which essentially divides the country into a 50:50 split.. usually/initially/stupidly... based on obscure old philosophical/political ideologoies... that none of us ever really understood in the first place... didn't bloody relly care less about... and have basically forgotten about... other than the continuing "belief" that one side stands for "this"... and the other for "that"...

When in fact neither, as you say.. stands for this or that... and in modern times... stands for nothing other than their own self justification.. and re-election...

If democracy is dying... it's because we have/are allowing it to die...

Pretty hard to market it as the war on anybody who has oil and doesn't allow us to dictate who drills,how much is drilled. what currency it sells for and hates Zionism.

I wish there was a way to have paypal block where I sell things. It turns out if I don't ship and haven't set up any shipping rules to certain countries, paypal still lets people from there buy things but doesn't charge them shipping and then I have to get the customer to talk to me about shipping and if they are willing to pay it (if it is even something I can ship to them) and then I have to charge them for the shipping and get paid for it before I can ship and some customers never open their e-mail so this can sometimes be a real pain.

So how did paypal expect you to block business to those listed countries since I've never figured out how to do it?

As to finding alternatives. I expect BYAP has large enough volume of business that you could simply integrate a web credit card payment method off the same account you use in the physical store somehow. Problem I've found with most of the other merchant accounts is while they may take less per transaction, they tend to charge monthly fees, have complex contracts, and have monthly minimums or they charge you extra fees. My business is currently so small that there is no way it would be financially appropriate for me to use my bank's merchant account but other than the drawback of needing to do the web integration I expect for any business with at least $1000 a month in transactions that getting a merchant account set up should be reasonable. Just beware, there are many accounts that will advertize no monthly fees and free card readers etc but my mom has learned with her account that most of those are just introductory trials and that they start adding fees about the time you can no longer back out of the contract, so be sure to read the fine print and don't be too trusting of the salesmen.