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PostPosted: Nov 27th, '12, 19:16 
Bordering on Legend
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Mr Damage wrote:
I want the sepo's on my side if/when the sh!t hits the fan!... let them develop all the bases they want in the NT and Kimberley I say!

Do you think if the Chinese owned large agricultural and resource interests in Australia and we allowed them to develop a military prescence here to protect their assets... that they then wouldn't use that foot-in-the-door and their military weight to simply take what they wanted when the time comes?

Bad idea the seppos are on the decline we have chosen the dying empire to bring war to our front door with the rising empire.
The US army uses a lot of oil
Quote:
According to 2007 CIA World Fact Book, when oil consumption is broken down per capita, the U.S. Department of Defense ranks fourth in the world (behind three actual nations, that is.

The logical solution is to play them off against each other for maximum security.
Globalisation will be one of the big casualties of a no growth high oil price economy it will be replaced by localisation making large industrialised agriculture pretty worthless.

The US needs constant economic growth more than any nation they have citizens with no safety nets and high expectations coming of a high base level, a recipe for disaster when the delusion of the American dream turns into a nightmare.


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 03:07 
Bordering on Legend
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Yep, and most of the general population of this country is completely clueless. They think gas and food are going to just get cheaper and jobs are going to come out of nowhere or the government is going to take care of everything for them.

People on this forum in general are far more grounded in reality thankfully.


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 09:46 
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If you don't sell to a country then they will come and take by force anyway if you are weak. Having the US here will slow that down but when it gets ugly they will pull back to fortress America anyway. Dogs eat happily when they all have a bone. When one finishes his then fights break out. It's very simple. At present we all have a bone.


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 09:50 
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War has followed periods of stagnant growth and high unemployment historically so the population retreat curves could be much steeper than shown above. Hence the fixation with the three G's

Guns
God
Groceries

Some would add the 4th, gasoline.

Why you would need guns and God at the same time I have never really understood?


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 09:57 
frostyboy wrote:
Why you would need guns and God at the same time I have never really understood?

I was going to ask the same question....

Unless it's to "pass the ammunition" ... :lol:


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 11:24 
Bordering on Legend
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Mr Damage wrote:
Do you think if the Chinese owned large agricultural and resource interests in Australia and we allowed them to develop a military prescence here to protect their assets... that they then wouldn't use that foot-in-the-door and their military weight to simply take what they wanted when the time comes?


I'm half Chainese - Thai
I would say if you do that Chinese will become majority in Australia. Very sure. :naughty:
Chinese will dominate your country.


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 13:50 
Bordering on Legend
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Exponential Growth



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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 14:51 
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Some billionaires are planning to mine some asteroids:




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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 15:00 
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Speaking about exponential growth, I think it is important that we respect each other globally because a small seed of disrespect or hate can grow exponentially in one mind and spread to many more. This is evident throughout history. I'm not saying it's the answer that will fix everything but it's a good place to start. WW3 is a very bad idea.


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 15:19 
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America and China may one day become united as one literally through the centre of the earth:

Behold the gravity train:




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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 15:27 
Bordering on Legend
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RupertofOZ wrote:
Snags wrote:
Australia is a food exporter we are part of the problem we feed the extra mouths that use the resources that create the problems.

Yep.. we are a "food exporter".... but we are actually a net "food importer"... and have been for about 5 years...

We can't even guarantee our own food security.... with ownership of current resources....

:



I think you should define what you class as food.

Because Australia grows enough food to feed 100 million people.


Quote:
2. Food security: Australia‟s agricultural production, prior to recent droughts, has been estimated to provide sufficient food for up to 100 million people. Currently, food exports contribute significantly to our national earnings, and to the food security of other countries 5. At our current growth rate, and assuming this production level is maintained, we would exceed our food production capacity in the last quarter of this century. However, with the risk of crop failures increasing due to climate change, much of our current grain land will become unprofitable to plant. Irrigated production is already declining rapidly, with reduced river flows and increasing competition between agricultural and urban water needs6. Australia is at risk of becoming a net food importer by the middle of this century, while it is likely that most food-exporting countries will also reduce or eliminate their exports, particularly of staple foods. No foreseeable agricultural advances will change this outcome. Such a vulnerable position should not be wilfully pursued through policies of deliberate population growth.


3 International studies reviewed in O‟Brien-Pallas, L., Griffin, P., Shamian, J., Buchan, J., Duffield, C., Hughes, F., Spence Laschinger, H.K., North, N. and Stone, P.W. 2006, The Impact of Nurse Turnover on Patient, Nurse, and System Outcomes: A Pilot Study and Focus for a Multicenter International Study. POLICY POLIT NURS PRACT 2006; 7; 169
4 If average infrastructure lifespan is 50 years, a 2% annual replacement rate is implied. A 2% annual population growth rate would double this requirement for infrastructure creation. Australia‟s current growth rate is 1.9% p.a.
5 Bureau of Rural Sciences 2008. Australia‟s agricultural industries at a glance 2008. http://affashop.gov.au/product.asp?prodid=13943
6 The above reference documents steadily declining water usage by agriculture, and agriculture‟s declining proportion of total water usage
.


ref: http://www.phaa.net.au/documents/200910 ... afinal.pdf


But we've discussed this before in the other forum.
I also did the calculation from research and first principles as you well know

I'll re-paste it here

ref: http://www.aquaponics.net.au/forum/show ... ions/page7
Quote:
The question is:

AUSTRALIA'S capacity to feed itself is under threat

What this is saying is Australia may no longer be capable of producing
enough food to feed its population.

So how would you work this out?

1/ How much food does Australia produce?

2/ How many people are in Australia

3/ divide 2 into 1 and see how many calories Australia produces per person

So Australian beef cattle farmers produce 2.1 million tonnes of beef and veal each year.

ABARES, Australian Commodity Statistics, 2011

Assuming 25 million people in Aust (it's actually 22,861,586) but it's easier to divide by 25.

So this equates to 84kg/person/year or 230g/person/day or 484 calories/person/day

For caloric calculation consistency I only used this site:
http://caloriecount.about.com/calori...derloin-i13257

So let's take this further

beef.......230g......484cal
pork.......41g.......121cal
poultry....93g.......195cal
wheat..2252g......5549cal
barley.....651g...... 2326cal
lupin.......145g......168cal
oats.......164g......116cal
apples....28.4g.....15cal
pear.......14g........8cal
rice.........131g.....170cal
grapes....140g......95cal

So far I'm upto 9247 calories/person/day.

How many calories does the average adult require per day JUST 2000 calories.

So we are already upto 5X the amount of calories required per person per day

So theoretically with just 11 food groups we can feed 125 Million people

I have not included any vegetables
many fruits such as oranges,peaches,apricots and so on
milk and associated products as cheese,yoghurt,butter or cream
Any fish at all
any eggs
Sugar (this amount of calories would have distorted any data)




So, Rupe I still don't understand how you can say

Quote:
"We can't even guarantee our own food security"



cheers Lou


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 15:41 
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America will be self sufficent in oil very soon through CSG while we will be exporting all ours to Chinia and India. Check what you pay for a litre of natural gas and say we sell it to china at 5 cents a litre. Keep repeating it because we are enabling them to drive their boats and planes.


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 15:46 
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If Australia ends up having to import food because of drought and the effects of climate change, wouldn't every other country on Earth also have a similar problem in which case every country would be a net importer of food? ;)

Earthbound better ramp up production on aquaponics systems for when everyone has to grow their own :thumbright:


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 16:20 
Bordering on Legend
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Without oil
Importing food is almost impossible. Ship and plane run by oil.

Expensive Oil expensive food


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '12, 16:31 
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Increased expense in food and oil to China means a possible increase in consumer goods for Australia. Almost everything is made in China. Therefore if people want smart phones and wide screen TV's for cheap then better keep China happy.

Some might say that it's unfair that people get paid very little to work long hours making smart phones.


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