Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

lol - what does it look like?

soft and wormy...................

Ok, I was not aware that there was grinding action in a "fluidized filter".
That makes sense. I want to make use of the worm's stomachs to grind, not grind the worms!
I am fond of encouraging thought here. Ties in to Gary's recent thread on not enough interesting posts...

So my line of thought is now on using a controlled actuated valve (Les?? you there ) so I have continuous flow through the vermifilter, cut out the flood reservoir. (Sorry Mr. flood reservoir, you know deep down I really want you in my life, but practicallity sometimes gets in the way....) and just use a valve after the filter to flood the beds, either all at once or one at a time and otherwise just circle back to the fish tank when not flooding beds....or have the flood reservoir and cycle the reservoir to each bed one after another, to allow time in between for a dry period. Anyhoo, I figure I am getting very detailed here without any visual stimulation for you folks I am asking for ideas from. Give me a little time and there will be diagrams.

One thought:
I am not aiming to remove all disolved solids as Aquaddict implied regarding osmoregulation. I referred in my first diagram as a coarse sand. Just fine enough to remove most of the the fine silt of broken fish casings.
Now, assuming that wastes going in the filter contain nitrogen, would there be any degree of it actually removing nitrate from the water, or would that be a component of the worm castings as well? I am not aware of this factor, and I may need to build in some regulation, if it is even valid. Any data anyone?

WOW you guys have been busy! I kinder got abit confused as to what your trying to do but I gather this vermi filter is aimed at simply filtering water, not enriching it which worms would undoubted do (reducing stocking densities?) . I have been a fulltime worm farmer for local gov for the last 10 years so i may be able to help. To give you an idea of the scale of our wf... we fed them approx. 2t of vege waste on fri and is virtually all gone today!

There is a product/filter on the market which incorperates worm and filter all septic/grey water into a clear product suitable for irrigation. biolytics i think, very expensive and effective!

I think what you want to do will work but will need a series of different layers of organics and inorganics...simulating a forest floor. Size will be determined by flow rate required.

let me know if i can help

Thanks for the outreach Worms, it is incredible the degree of knowledge and experience that the internet has brought to the hands of everyone, allowing humanity to blossom.

What I am seeing is a active filter that will handle higher densities of fish(within reason).
I see a need to have the worm castings enrichment, and my question (one of several) to you is to what degree will nitrate actively remain in the water to allow for plant uptake?
Essentially, are worm castings relatively equal to fish wastes in nutrient ratios?

I am now envisioning something slightly different, I will elaborate in pictures soon.

I think a vortex solids separator would be effective to have above the worm beds. The water from the standpipe goes directly into the center of each worm bed, while solids can be regulated to each bed via valve release from the bottom of the separator. This could allow an even, and handleable load for each worm bed.
The beds would be cylindrical in shape, but made of mesh, so flow is active through the gravel. These cylindrical mesh pots would hang into the rising and draining flow of water in a flood reservoir for grow beds. Some of the gravel will remain above water, but would remain moist by water splashing from the inflow.
A ring of fine-medium bubble line would be placed in the gravel near the bottom of the cylinder to oxygenate the inside perimeter of the filter while it is flooded to encourage the worms to remain there....but where else to go?

Biolytix: http://www.biolytix.com/detail.php?ID=69

Most fascinating...

I don't think we need such a degree of processing ability, as I am not considering mass food scraps, or large solid wastes. Just little, tiny solids, that are fragile and disperse easily in a recirculation system.


Your input is most enjoyed.

Hayden

Here is a quick sketch of the basket and vortex separator.
Keep in mind this is simplified.
Also picture a lid to darken surface of gravel.

What I hope may occur here is that the rising bubbles will lift water (when filter is submerged by ebb/flow cycle) to the top, causing a circulation of outwards, up and down the center, where water flows constantly. The larger gravel in the center will help with the flow through. So when the filter is not submerged the water will flow mostly down the center and out the bottom, leaving the sides drier. Solids will build amongst the coarse gravel and up against the fine gravel, where worms can consume it.

Also keep in mind here that I envision one or two vortex separator(s) operating over several worm basket filters, thereby reducing the flow required to goo through each filter. Solids can be released intermittently to control feed rates to the worms. (Though if balanced for a given solid waste output, a separator may not be required).

This is my latest theoretical design.
I was also considering a thin layer of coconut coir near the bottom, though I don't think I need to be too picky here.

Any considerations?

Hayden

G'day Hayden,

Im impressed with those drawings of the filter and the amount of thought and effort you have gone to. I do however wonder whether all this effort is worth it. The last time I dabled with a vortex type filter it failed miseralbly, and cost a fortune.

I will post the typical analysis of our vermicast soon.

Not discourage you with your plans but just a thought, It may have already been mentioned. I would be inclined to simply throw afew worms in the grow beds and let them do there thing in there. Remember worms can eat their body weight in food per day, thats alot of fish poo. better to add a minimal amount as they will regulate their population according to what the environment can support. Another thing, you'll find that worm rarely all stay put, they are always on move, trying to take over the world i suspect.

cheers, worms

Well, the vortex indeed was just a last minute light bulb, thinking of how to control the amount of solids entering the filter at once. It is probably not needed, so I can account your frustrations on the vortex operation.

Worms, in my small hobby system I have worms in my beds. What I am looking at is something to deal with increased solids in a larger, business aimed system scenario. If you read my first posts in more detail you will see my focus is on keeping decaying wastes out of the growbeds, primarily to help remove the chance of encountering pythium infection. In my observation of larger systems where gravel beds are used, they must be periodically raked and cleaned. Partially due to feeder root buildup, and partially from fish solids. Therein lies my interest here, along with adding an active component to an ecosystem that may bring benefit with fish and plant health.

You won't discourage me, you will just make me consider other ideas and think harder

Thanks,
Hayden

To bring a little update to my experimentation, I built a simple net attached to a wood frame, made a frame plate to hole the bottom flat(bottom of rigid pail with 3/8 holes drilled in it) and an air bubbler line in a ring around the bottom(inside the gravel). I put larger pea gravel at the bottom to allow the air to distribute more. Water flows constantly.

In the gravel in the bottom of my flood reservoir, upon cleaning it I discovered around 20 worms living happily there, consuming the abundant silt that has settled there....completely submerged. The water stays several inches above the bottom so they see no periods of direct air.
Funny thing is that I didn't put any there. Only in the grow beds, where water flushes quite quickly from the reservoir. I cannot see how a worm could make it up the tubing.....

I will monitor how quickly wastes that I put into the filter are consumed, and expose the gravel to see the density of the worm population occasionally.

Hayden

Hi Hayden,



A worm might not be able to make it up the tubing......but an egg capsule might. What do you think?

Gary

Bingo. Up the pump intake, and it would make it through the impeller ok too. Good thinking....

Interesting worm experiment. I released some worms into my growbeds, and will be interested to see how yours fair in their new home.

What's the pulley-thing in the first shot?

It is the floodvalve actuator. Basically a siphon drains into a bottle to create a weight to open a valve in the bottom of the flood reservoir. The water flushes quite quickly. When the water reaches the bottom of the siphon, it stops the flow into the bottle, closing the valve. (water drains slowly from the bottle, slightly more in than out)
Its neat seeing it operate all by itself

I control my flood timing by allowing some of the pumped in water to drain constantly into my duckweed tank, thereby allowing my pump to be always on. This dramatically increases pump life, and no timers are needed.

Hayden

HA HA barrelponics style

Indeed, the rise and fall in the water is quite useful.
Barrelponics style.