Jail in north America

helomech

Simo wrote:

helomech wrote:

So how does it work in your country? Are those suspected of a crime, just let free until their trial?

I'm pretty sure it is exactly the same, but we call it "remand" not jail, in Australia when charged with certain crimes you are remanded in custody if you are unable to post the bail set because you are poor, or the crime you are charged with makes you a risk to society or you are regarded as a flight risk. The ability to obtain bail and how much it is decided by a judge based on evidence at a bail hearing, which although is not a criminal trial as such it does mean that you cannot be placed on remand unless there is strong evidence against you. Boiled down this means that those on remand are people with strong evidence they have committed a crime who pose a risk to society or cannot or will not post bail.

Interesting reading:

http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/8/D/E/% ... ndi310.pdf

http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/B/9/1/% ... 7Dti27.pdf

http://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/st/st24

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remand_(detention)

Bullwinkle II - I agree with you about the indefinate detention with out charge bit though, surely this is a breach of human rights and is very Stalinist type of behaviour which should not be tolerated. It is basically someone in authority saying "we know you done it, but we have no evidence, so we will just lock you up forever anyway"

That is the exact same thing that happens here. Just because yall call it remand does not mean it is not prison.

Ronmaggi

If someone you know is locked up for an unreasonable ammount of time without a fair trial, contact Amnesty International. They will start a letter writing champaign. When someone realizes that people know that they have incarcerated some one without due process, they usually release the prisoner right away. It happens all over the world, all the time, everywhere. There is not a country that has not committed human rights infractions. Some, like Indonesia and Myanmar, commit more than others, but all countries have had infractions.

BullwinkleII

helomech wrote:

Guns don't cause any crimes I hope you truly don't believe this. In fact Australias crime rate has not decreased at any new rate since you have instuted very strict gun laws, and the U.S. crime rate has been on a decline since we have allowed right to carry laws in most states. I can't get over the fear of guns some people have, it is really ridiculous. Blaming a gun on crime is like blaming a spoon on obesity. It is beyond stupid.

As far as what happens in jail I don't give a damn. I wish we would issue them ropes so they could hang themselves if they wanted to. I truly don't care how crapy they have it in there. They got themselves in there. Sure there are some in there that commited no crime and for those I do feel bad. I also don't think drug should get you in prison, but that is beyond my control.

Sure looks like some of you have a problem with us over in the U.S. I always thought we where friends, but comments like above piss me off. I probably hate my government more than anyone on this site, but to knock Americans because of a few hundred politicians is stupid. I could point out lots about your country, but I will not.

I just went back and read the posts to this point, and I cant see any anti-north american stuff at all. I certainly dont have a problem with people from the USA and I've never met one I didn't like. On line or in real life.

I have a problem with people getting locked up indefinitely without charges being laid (anti-terror). I think putting people in jail for months without a court having found them guilty is also a bit of a worry (due process).

So..not you, just your penal system

BullwinkleII

helomech wrote:

[stuff deleted]
So how does it work in your country? Are those suspected of a crime, just let free until their trial?

I have no idea. The BBC documentry I was watching was about the USA.

One particular person had been in the system for 13 months without being found guilty of anything.

This thread was never intended to be a competition to see which country was better, (and I would never engage in such a total waste of time) it was a comment on the North American administrations desire to be able to lock people up without due process according to the original sentiment expressed in your constitution and bill of rights.

It's still due process because it's the law, but nobody that had anything to do with the writing of the USA's constitution ever thought anyone was going to pass a law saying they could lock people up forever without even a charge being brought against them.

Your laws apply to me as well as you, but I don't get the protection of your bill of rights.

I get to comment on them and express my concern.

LowCarbTNPer

Most Americans are against laws like this where you can get locked up indefinitely without being charged. Unfortunately our politicians are out of control and just doing whatever they want for the most part, or for whoever will pay them the most.

Ronmaggi

13 months in jail without a trial would constitute a constitutional breach. Amnesty International would definitely start an Urgent Action on that one. The evil Patriot Act must be responsible for that one. I am amazed no one has taken the act to the supreme court. It is an atrocious breach of our civil liberties. It is bull cuss to think that the power is only going to be used to fight terrorism. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Ronmaggi

It is lack of transparancy that allowed Nazi Germany to commit it's crimes, and as Americans it is important to examine our government as we examine ourselves. If we cannot see what our government is doing, how do we know if what it is doing is really in our best interests. I love my nation, as I love myself. But I know I need to be put in check sometimes too.

helomech

BullwinkleII wrote:

helomech wrote:

Guns don't cause any crimes I hope you truly don't believe this. In fact Australias crime rate has not decreased at any new rate since you have instuted very strict gun laws, and the U.S. crime rate has been on a decline since we have allowed right to carry laws in most states. I can't get over the fear of guns some people have, it is really ridiculous. Blaming a gun on crime is like blaming a spoon on obesity. It is beyond stupid.

As far as what happens in jail I don't give a damn. I wish we would issue them ropes so they could hang themselves if they wanted to. I truly don't care how crapy they have it in there. They got themselves in there. Sure there are some in there that commited no crime and for those I do feel bad. I also don't think drug should get you in prison, but that is beyond my control.

Sure looks like some of you have a problem with us over in the U.S. I always thought we where friends, but comments like above piss me off. I probably hate my government more than anyone on this site, but to knock Americans because of a few hundred politicians is stupid. I could point out lots about your country, but I will not.

I just went back and read the posts to this point, and I cant see any anti-north american stuff at all. I certainly dont have a problem with people from the USA and I've never met one I didn't like. On line or in real life.

I have a problem with people getting locked up indefinitely without charges being laid (anti-terror). I think putting people in jail for months without a court having found them guilty is also a bit of a worry (due process).

So..not you, just your penal system

Now that I re read it I agree. I hate my government these days. They are so out of control, something needs to happen. Not sure exactly what, but if this continues we will have no freedoms left. I hate the patriot act, it is the biggest peice of unconstitutional legislation that has ever passed in this country.

helomech

Ronmaggi wrote:

It is lack of transparancy that allowed Nazi Germany to commit it's crimes, and as Americans it is important to examine our government as we examine ourselves. If we cannot see what our government is doing, how do we know if what it is doing is really in our best interests. I love my nation, as I love myself. But I know I need to be put in check sometimes too.

I love my country, and my country men. But I believe that our government is our biggest threat these days, not some other country or terrorist.

Ronmaggi

helomech wrote:

Ronmaggi wrote:

It is lack of transparancy that allowed Nazi Germany to commit it's crimes, and as Americans it is important to examine our government as we examine ourselves. If we cannot see what our government is doing, how do we know if what it is doing is really in our best interests. I love my nation, as I love myself. But I know I need to be put in check sometimes too.

I love my country, and my country men. But I believe that our government is our biggest threat these days, not some other country or terrorist.

+1000

SolTun

keith wrote:

that it's a cultural thing.. but where does that culture come from?

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/23/us/te ... index.html

cheers

helomech

SolTun wrote:

keith wrote:

that it's a cultural thing.. but where does that culture come from?

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/23/us/te ... index.html

cheers

That meets the definition of a legal shoot in Texas even if it wasn't a police a civilian still could have shot this guy legally.

Zubin

Clueless

Those who never lived in US of As for at least 15 years specially in medium to small towns have no clue what is going on here? It really shows lack of knowledge and lack of accurate information. As few Americans who mentioned, if we take out the rat packed city downtowns and ghettos, the crime rate in USA is nothing at all. Even people who live in New York City, DC and other rat packed infested cities who never lived out in country and/or small cities and towns, have no clue what USA is all about.

Again; it was mentioned that due to lack of a good base for children, which means mother and fathers who actually care about their children's well being, this is the price that all people have to pay. Some citizen's lack of duty, honer, individual responsibility, will cause us all a heavy price. And this is what we get with Godlessness and selfishness of today's society!
And it has nothing to do with guns.

Ronmaggi

You mention rat packed cities as a problem, but the most densely populated part of San Diego county has the lowest crime rate. The urban center of San Diego used to have higher crime, but now most of it's crime is in a part called City Heights. Oddly, some of the biggest crimes happen in the less densely populated, and more family oriented north county. It got to the point where teenage girls were asking their parents to buy tracking devices for them so if they were kidnapped they could be found. Luckly the creep responsible was found, and he went into trial quickly. I believe in his case bail was not allowed, because he was already a registered sexual offender.

helomech

Ronmaggi wrote:

You mention rat packed cities as a problem, but the most densely populated part of San Diego county has the lowest crime rate. The urban center of San Diego used to have higher crime, but now most of it's crime is in a part called City Heights. Oddly, some of the biggest crimes happen in the less densely populated, and more family oriented north county. It got to the point where teenage girls were asking their parents to buy tracking devices for them so if they were kidnapped they could be found. Luckly the creep responsible was found, and he went into trial quickly. I believe in his case bail was not allowed, because he was already a registered sexual offender.

I would think that would be the exception and not the rule. Most crime takes place in the larger cities. Especially the less well off parts of those cities. Heck Houston has some very safe neighbor hoods, but if you don't make million of dollars a year, you won't live in one of them.

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Jail in north America

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