Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Many people give to charity almost solely for the tax discount. I believe this is because we all believe that most people are getting looked after by the government.
I believe that Governments remove love from voluntary human help
Meaning that if the need is there, people help out.
If the need is removed, then people don't think about it.

Wow, and you even put that in italics. From what I can see your political beliefs are the most self-centred I have ever heard. They are totally 100% self.

I'm just shocked by it all, that people can believe in a system that that is so focused on "self". In the developing world examples, they are facing epidemics of diet related diseases directly linked to the change in diet and increased consumption of these junk foods. It's putting an enormous strain on their medical systems, people are dying and it's getting worse..

But that's it, it's peoples right to die because heaven help us if we might infringe somebodies personal liberties to drink as much sugar drink as what they want, or more aptly what the sugar drink company tells them they want. It would be better for tens of thousands of people to die rather than have one persons personal liberties to drink 5L of coke a day taken from them..

Sometimes decisions have to be made for the good of the many. It's about compromises, people make them every day, you compromise in a marriage and personal relationships, you don't get everything your way, sometimes you concede and do things you don't want to do. You have to compromise in your job every day, you have to do things you don't want want to.

Same on the levels of community, you have to do things everyday to be a member of community. You might want to drive down the wrong side of the road, get out of your car naked and do cartwheels through the childrens playground, but guess what, you don't. And if you did you would probably be arrested, and as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing, I don't want people to have the right to do naked cartwheels through a playground.

But really this isn't any sort of a debate, there might be a debate if the topic was about what levels of controls and regulations are required, but the fact that your argument is that there be NO regulations of any type... That groups of individuals can make their own laws up if they want to, and hire their own armed security people to enforce those laws they have made up... This is fantasy... Mad Max beyond thunderdome type stuff..

I'm happy that we have gun controls here in Australia, I'm happy that tobacco advertising is banned, that alcohol restrictions are starting to be tightened in many areas that have troubles with excessive alcohol consumption. That we have minimum ages for driving, alcohol consumption and sex.. This is good, this is part of what makes a community...

In your world, you could be walking down the street and a rent-a-cop shoots you dead because you broke a law that you didn't even know existed.

If thats what you think, then yes, your vote will never count (guess what, you don't vote), you will never never have a choice and never any blame. You are a prisoner of your own mind.. I choose to have a choice, I believe I can make a difference and I vote. I believe that I'm not restrained by government, and I rarely if ever, feel at all restrained..

I started a business doing things people hadn't done before, I wasn't held back or restrained in any way, I do whatever I want to do...

If you want to feel like you are encumbered by a political system you are living under, that's your choice, and you will always feel that way unless YOU change the way you think... Honestly you talk about all this restraint on businesses, about the government controlling and holding back business and people. What have you tried to do lately? What have you actually gone out and tried to physically do, then found "bugger, there legislation stopping me doing that"?

While it's true of many people it's also true that many give without this consideration. Some give their time, some give their money, some donate household items to be sold by charities.

Here in the states you have to reach a certain level before it even makes sense to itemize things like donated items. Many, many people don't come close. For most reaching this level involves the interest paid on your house and property loans - the bigger these are the more it makes sense to itemize things you donate. I'm not a tax expert but I'm pretty sure a person paying the interest on a 30 year 100,000 dollar loan at current rates wouldn't qualify unless they were giving away a lot of money or items.

Say you're doing it for the money, say you give 400 dollars to a charity and it saves you 100 dollars in taxes. I'd say that's a win for the charity and a win for you, even though you still gave away 300 dollars you got to add an extra hundred and choose the charity it went to. Is there some tax break I don't know about in charitable giving where you get back more than you put in?

In Australia, any donation above $2 is tax deductable. At $180k the tax rate is 45cents per dollar above $180k. Plus other levies.

So if I donate $100, the charity gets $100 and I can deduct $100 from my taxable income. This effectively gives more money in my pocket.

And I have no problems with what you do, or your reasons for it VLT....

Heck you may well of even helped buy Tommie's wheelchair....

But he still ended up at the bottom of the river... with his shiney new wheechair on top of him...

As the rest of the Liberatarian utopians trampled all over their ideals in a split second...

To satisfy their base human nature... of personal gain.... greed...

much to tommies dismay.....greed = shark

= human nature.... rightly or wrongly...

And human nature usually takes presenance over philosophical debate....

Are there no charities around?
There are 100% self funded ones now (despite the hurdles they have to go through), so where did they go?

I'm still waiting for a CPA (Certified Public Accountant) to chime in and tell me I'm wrong about the tax bit



You were soooo close EB - what the heck!
Live long and prosper (I couldn't find the Vulcan thingy )

I agree and it really gets to me when the govt is making it harder and harder for those charities to operate...due to ever more regulations.
The ones that are supposed to help people...



So if people are greedy why are there so many charities around (there will be less soon) ?
Charities that can and DO help Tommy, DESPITE the hurdles they have to jump through...

I think you've missed the point SV...

I'm suggesting that your Liberatarian Utopia... would never come about... let alone continue for more than a heart beat....

Because of human greed...

Then how is it a Utopia, as you seem to like to call it ?

Oh yes, I haven't responded to your view of how poor Tommy ends up with the fishes...

So I guess he is already choosing to be separate from society by being a liar?

Well this is trespass and is illegal. As it is today.
And this is murder, also illegal obviously This is legit I believe..

And the last bit is where you believe that services such as courts/police/legal system are not possible if the govt doesnt provide them.

So is that the underlying issue?
That there would be none of these services ?

What's wrong with private police and courts etc ?
We have security guards already, is it so hard to realise private solutions to fill the void of govt provided ones?
The advantage of private institutions is that they are completely at the mercy of the customers. If they do a crap job, they lose money and eventually go broke, just like a crap plumber.
The police today can always do a crap job and it makes no difference. Maybe some public pressure but there is no incentive be be more efficient and serve your customers above what you can get away with.

Nope.... just that underlying human greed.. will always lead to conflict...

That your "ideal" world full of "ideal" people... has never existed... and never will....

Private police and courts.... what lynch mobs and kangeroo courts... the wild west....

They didn't work... in the wild west... or anywhere else for that matter... and never could under your "theory"...

Who decides who acts as police, judge and jury... and what happens if a large proportion of the population decides, in it's Liberatarian right... that rest are wrong... and/or infringing on their rights...

Apart from which... it's already becoming a matter of collective asembly... and representation.... government...

Not individual liberty... and action...

No I guess people in a libertarian society, a society based purely on self, wouldn't be at all greedy..

What about the citizens of Mexico SV? Just too bad, they just have to deal with their massive health problem and can't actually do anything about it?

In SV's world where there is no gov to pay tax to I wouldnt donate at all.